All,
I realize that the use of fiber cement siding has probably benn discussed ad nauseum in the BT forum but any tips from experienced users would be greatly welcomed This is my first venture away from the real thing (wood) and i will listen to all the tips you’ve got.
A few specific questions I have are:
1. The best house wrap to use? I’ve heard that some deterioate when in contact with the cement board.
2. Have any of you used power shears for cutting the product and are you satisfied with the results?
3. Does dust from cutting with a circular saw present a significant problem?
4. To any of you with a job that’s been exposed to the weather for a while, how is the paint holding up and what products would you recommend for finishing?
5. As mentioned before I’m a neophite, so any tips you have will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
RdByker
Replies
There has been a lot written here. You can read at length in the archives. As an engineer homeowner, who used Hardie on my own house in 2000, I can answer some of your questions succinctly.
A circular saw will kick up a lot of dust. You'll go through blades quickly. The dust contains crystalline silica, which is what ordinary sand is. It can irritate the lungs and over the long term can cause disease. Fiber cement siding is not more harmful than any other form of silica. All fine sand dust is hazardous. A respirator is a good idea. But I recommend the shears. I haven't use them, but read good things about them.
I followed Hardie's painting recommendations carefully. It's only been 4 years since mine was painted but I did look it over very thoroughly just to see how it's holding up and there isn't the slightest bit of degradation anywhere, other than some fading of the deep color in sunny areas.
You must use a 100% acrylic primer and water based (preferably 100% acrylic, because they are more durable than acrylic-latex blends) top coats. Oil based primer will saponify on the alkali material and peel.
Hardie has a good website, which includes technical discussions. http://www.jameshardie.com
Something the website (and the old discussions I've read here) haven't clarified for me is the durability of the pre-finished coatings. Are the people here united in believing that it's far better to install the plain stuff and then apply a finish (100% acrylic latex or others), than it is to use the pre-finished Hardie products?
Personally, I prefer the Certainteed plank over Hardy....and the prestained finish is amazingly tough and scratch resistant.
Just curious, why do you like the Certainteed over Hardi? I've used Chemplank and hate it cause it so brittle. Nailing at the ends sucked. It all had to be pre-drilled :-(
To the rest, we can get both 5/4 Hardi & Chemplank trim, interesting you can't. Don't worry, we can fix that later!
I prefer Certainteed for about three reasons: As someone else mentioned, it has, in my view, a more realistic woodgrain texture more in keeping with the WRC and Redwood common to my area PNW; Having put up quite a bit of both Hardy and Cert., the Certainteed seems to be a little denser and easier to control the flush-nailing with my siding nailers; And 3rd (and this is a little anecdotal), my supplier, who sells both (with the price being about the same), has toured the factories of both and he feels the Certainteed process produces a better product.
Having said all that, the differences are small, and both are a great siding product.
I built a house last year on which the owners wanted a stained product that would give a Red Cedar look. Their choice was for the Certainteed "Maple tone."
We started out staining it ourselves, but, because the stain requires 3 coats typically when spraying, and must be done laying flat, the process was slow and we got about 1/4 of a unit done before damp weather conditions set in. So I bought back the remainder for another job and ordered a unit of the factory stained.
The result was a consistent stained product, well protected for shipping ( a sheet of clear poly between each course), and while the stained product was just a little over double the cost of the regular preprimed plank, the labor and material savings more than covered it.
There was a slight difference between the shade of what we stained and the factory stained plank, so we used all of "our" plank below a water table and a deck and the factory stained above. It turned out great and the customer is totally happy.
The only Hardie I've used was unfinished, since prefinished wasn't around a few years ago. I have not seen any independent testing, nor have I seen the manufacturer state whether the prefinishing is more durable or merely a convenience.
I'm using Certainteed lap planks - grain pattern seems more realistic than the Hardi which is important as I'm using the FC stain vs. paint. Certainteed Come back primed so no prep there and seems like a good measure of redundant moisture protection.
Using Typar as the underlayment - more UV resistant than Tyvek w/ similar permeability. Typar is tougher to tear than tar felt and you have to watch out for the sharp edges of the cement board planks - they can cut felt (and hands) pretty easily
Using Makita's special fiber cement saw hooked to a cheap shop vac. Total set up was less expensive than shears and seems faster and just about as clean. Still wear a mask though.....
I'm using Mason's select stains - look great, but you do have to pre-apply so you can lay it on horizontally. Looks amazingly like wood when done right. See BT threads on this subject (search "staining fiber cement".
Blind nailing with 1.5" roofing nails and bostitich roofing gun into every stud, over 5/8th ply sheathing. works great. have to pre-drill nail holes if you are close to the edge or corner of a board.
Overall, I like working with the FC.
Wylie
Success = Work+ Risk + Luck, in that order. Muriel Seibert
Hi Tejon,
Currently working on a fiber-cement siding job. Here are my personal observations:
Cutting: I'm using a diamond blade in a skil saw - works fine. I use a speed square to run the saw against for a straight cut. Doing it outside on windy days..... (wink). Next time I MIGHT use a 10" diamond blade in a chop saw with a strong vacuum attached. (faster and cleaner)
Trim: Client went and also bought the HardiTrim. What a pain! Here in CT we like the trim to be proud of the siding (for looks and makes a better caulk seal). BUT HardiTrim only comes in 5/16 thickness so we had to double it up. Now there is a seam to look at and the factory edges are not smooth. Go figure.... When I do it again I'll use wood trim. Wood is also easier to "fine tune" for a better fit.
Storage: The instructions (make sure you read them) say not to let it get wet. Kinda surprising since it's supposed to be so indestructible! Another mystery.
Do read the other dicussions in the archives, especially the fastening discussions.
Best of Luck!
Egon
If you read Hardie's website you'll see that they recommend installing their trim products over the siding... that's why it's only 5/16". Strange but true.
I prefer Azek or Koma pvc trim boards to either the Hardie trim or wood. Ties in the low maintnence package nicely.
Client would never go for trim over the siding though. Seems like they are trying to use the thin stuff someway! LOL
Thanks for the info. on Azek trim, etc. Seems like the best combination.
Egon
Hi RdByker
We are building our house. We tried the saw, and it was far too dusty. Bought the shears, and they work great. Very smooth cut and corners are easy to touch up with a file.
For finish we used Mason's Select Woodperfect stain for fiber cement to get a woodtone stain. It's an attractive finish, but has to be applied before installation, since the siding has to be horizontal to get a realistic effect.
http://www.superdeck.com/masonsselect/6700spec.htm#6700colors
It's been less then a year, but so far no problems.
kestrel
From the Hardi demo at JLC-live at Portland, OR, a couple of years ago:
The Hardi rep doing the demonstgration used a Makita saw with a fibercement blade. He ran a flexible hose frfom the exhaust port of the saw to a standard 5 gallon bucket through a hole in the lid. The audience was a couple of feet away and there was no noticeable dust during the demonstration - much to my surprise. The rep recommended the saw with the fibercement blade over the shears primarily because the saw was much faster. However, the shears were better at cutting curves and irregular shapes.
I use a lot of Hardiglaze. ( same base material ) I started with manual shears which worked fine for most Hardies products but not so good for the glazed one.
Now I use a small angle grinder with a diamond wheel. It is acurate enough to split a pencil line and can easily sculpt curves etc. Dust isnt too bad outside and a mask keeps yer lungs clear anyhow.
Everything, 100% of it, depends on how you look at it.
DW
All,
I want to thank everyone for their info. There seems to be a mine field of information and opinions out there and I will employ as much as I can and hope for the best.
Thanks Again,
Tejon
I just did a small cementboard siding job. I used a fiber cement blade in my circular saw ...yes on a windy day is great... and there were a lot of curves to cut around crown type mouldings and instead of going out and buying the scissors I simply used my rotozip with a tile-cement board bit in it and cut to the scribe. It was slower but it was like butter and the control you have with that tool can't be beat.
For detailed cuts, a carbide grit blade on a jigsaw works pretty well. I initially tried the rotozip route but favor the feel and control of the jigsaw, for what it's worth.
Dustin
I put up Hardi board last year on my new home. I've never looked back. Excellent product and gets the same fire rating for insurance as brick does.
I used shears for the general cuts and a 7 1/4" Diablo blade in my power saw to rip pieces.
Most of the ripped cuts were for trim. I first cut left over 3/4" t&g OSB flooring into 2 1/4" & 3" strips. I overlapped these at the corners, primed, caulked and painted them for weather protection. I then ran the siding up next to these trim backing boards leaving about an 1/8" gap. I caulked the joint and covered the OSB backing boards with the ripped pieces of Hardiplank.
Tejon,
I am in the process of residing a house with pre finished Hardi. We were able to get 5/4 hardi trim for the corners and windows. I went up real nice. We also got 24" soffit material for the soffits, and 6" fascia material.
The finish seems to be very durable on this product.
We use a FC blade in a skilsaw for rips, window cutouts etc. It cuts the material great but is dustier than hell. Plus the massive amounts of dust make following a rip line next to impossible.
I abandoned the pencil line on the prefinished material and am using a scratch awl for a line. Much easier to follow.
Hope this helps.
Cole
Cole Dean
Dean Contracting
The cabots paint is the recomended for the 25 year finish but the other one is getting more favored statius, some thing duck???? brain dead this am. Gotta think to get you the name.
But the big issue is if you prefinish then the installer needs to use the care in handeling as such or you defeat the prefinish performance. And if you don't prefinish You need to put the quality of work into the paint job so as to get the highest performance.
If you have the option heavier underlay, 5/8s would give a better nail base.
Don't cover elec boxes #92+93
Don't use cut ends in the field #94. If you want to be picky you can match the grain end , plank by plank, end match for end match.
Don't install the wrong color trim, if it's a prefinish job.#95+96
I think the paint is called duck back? I can find it if you need it.
I installed the hardi siding with Azek PVC windowsills and Hardi trim boards, shot on with stainless ringshank nails about two years ago. I haven't had time to paint it yet, but it has gone through two rainy seasons with not one hint of degradation or rusty nail heads. No swelled corners, no mud stains, nothing. The stuff is incredible. You can glue the Azek PVC stuff with regular pipe cement to make the thickness you want, and the PVC beadboard makes a great porch ceiling. A little pricey, but with stainless brads, will hold paint great and last forever.