Hi all,
I’ve got about 30 square of roof, split level, most of it 4:12 but a small portion 3:12. I had wanted to use a metal roof system (asphalt shingles now) but I know within three years I will be adding on to this house and I’m not certain yet of the plan so I hate to plan to be removing and reapplying such an expensive material.
One portion of the roof is seriously aged and must be addressed quickly. My first plan therefore was to patch and wait the three years. But after factoring in the cost of the repair and the risk of doing the same thing on another section next year, I’ve decided to put a new asphalt roof on the entire house and put steel off until well after the addition is finished.
So I’ve learned now about fiberglass asphalt versus organic. But I’ve been warned off the fiberglass as I was told they tend to delaminate. Has anyone heard about this problem? I also read here they are floppier though I’m not sure if that is an issue in itself. I do tend to walk on the roof more than average as my gutters need frequent cleaning.
The house is in southwestern Ontario so we have harsh winters and hot summers. Being in a wooded area also means my shingles tend to take longer than average to dry out after rain. It seems the 4:12 and woods are not a great combination but the house was built in 1965 (same year I was built!) and revising the pitch at this point seems too ambitious.
Any comments on the fibre/fiber vs organic asphalt or on steel options would be most welcome. Thanks.
Replies
Not really sure where to start with this Dev.
If you start digging,you can research the splitting/delaminating fiberglass issue pretty thoroughly on the internet.
but if we are talking about the same thing---you might find that splitting isnot really a fiberglass issue-----but more of a problem caused by highly effective seal down strips on the shingle in combination with faulty framing/decking causing excessive deck movement. In short the sealdown strips cause all the shingles to bond together forming one big SHEET. movement in the deck will tear or split the shingles usually in a vertical pattern. No sealdown strip ----or a weaker sealdown strip would have allowed the shingles enough give to avoid the tearing.
now on a laminated shingle---if the nails aren't placed correctly in the specified nailzone----the "shim" portion of the shingle will seperate from the "dragons tooth" portion and slide down hill" delaminating".
Hitting the nail zone means that the 2 seperate pieces of a laminated shingle will be nailed together---not just glued with the adhesive.missing the nailzone will allow gravity and wind to eventually pull the shim loose from the dragons tooth.
The fiberglass vs. organic debate is largely irrelevant at this point however. It's been at least 10 years since I have even seen an organic shingle let alone installed one-----are they even still available?Off the top of my head---the last company I was aware even making organics was Globe---and I don't knowif they are even still in biz.
Of course if you are in canada---i have no ideawhat'savailable up there.
I would not use fiberglass in Ontario. Fiberglass shingles do not hold up in cold climates. The Journal of Light Construction had an article on this topic a few months ago, and my experience supports what the experts found.
Our church (upstate New York, 20 miles South of Prescott, ON) was built with fiberglass shingles. After only a few years we kept finding torn off shingles in the parking lot every spring. I tried to order replacements from the original supplier. He said that all fiberglass shingles are special order, because they are not rated for cold climates and no one stocks them. I checked with the manufacturer and found out indeed, that they can't be used here. All of our patching was done with asphalt shingles, all of which held up without a single failure over the succeeding 15 years, while more fiberglass continued to come off every year. We finally had enough money to rip off and replace the entire roof with asphalt, which are holding up fine.
My boss bought a house only 12 years old. His fiberglass shingles were already coming off, and he had water damage inside the house.
I would be surprised if you could find any in your area. Read the literature carefully. Make sure what you buy is rated for your climate, and for the pitch.
You may want to trim trees to get more light and air and less debris on your roof.
i don't think so... you may be talking about one particular brand.. but my experience is the same as stephen's...
when the fiberglass matt first came out.. the mfr's didn't saturate it properly.. since then they have adopted new ASTM rules for testing.. also since then we have had Hurrican Andrew , which had a major impact on shingle testing and manufacturing..
the fiberglass shingle of today is far superior to the old organic shingle of ten years ago..
some roofers still swear by organics for winter installation.. but not me..
if you want an organic.. you could try IKO... they make a good one..
but we use almost 100% Certainteed, and every one of theirs is fiberglass mattMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
The authors of the Journal of Light Construction article found the problem to be widespread. There's no doubt that the fiberglass shingles of a decade ago were a failure in cold climates. That's not to say, however, that a shingle purchased today would not have been improved upon sufficiently to have solved the problem. They do have some advantages in shady or wet climates.
If the shingles are recommended by the manufacturer for your climate, and certified to pass the appropriate standards, then they're probably fine.
Here are two websites with information
Canadian Asphalt Shingle Manufacturers Association http://www.casma.ca/cas_tech.shtml
IKO Shingles http://www.iko.com/products/residential/residential.asp
wayne.. i couldn't find anything on the canada site about preferring organic over fiberglass..
and i also noted that on the IKO site.. the organics are only available in 20 and 25 year warranty.. while their fiberglass line goes all the way to 50 years and lifetime...
i think the days of organic matts are gone... even in cold climates like yours...Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Please tell me what issue of JLC the article was in.
Just that fact that you refer to asphalt shinges and fiberglass shingles as 2 different things is a bit unsetteling.
Matt
Hi Again,
Thanks everyone for the useful discussion on this topic. This was my first post and I'm glad to see how so many people have shared their time and expertise.
On the issue of fiberglass being somehow different from asphalt, that is NOT my understanding. As I understand it both are asphalt shingles, it's the interior substrate or matthat differs. The organic felt mat (or are there other inorganic felts??) is saturated with a 'saturant' (well, by definition, I suppose it is) then upper and lower layers of asphalt. In the case of fiberglass, the brochure I have from GAF still has the protective upper and lower layers of asphalt but the mat itself is just fiberglass without the need for saturant. That is the limit of the difference, according to my reading of the brochure.
The roofer that gave me this quote indicated that fiberglass mat is the standard shingle they use now so I'm inclined to think there might be a good reason. I'm just not sure if it's a short-term profit motive (they weigh less so I presume they're easier to handle and install?) or a superior serviceability issue.
I was also a little 'unsettled' at the distinction drawn by Wayne. Are there other fiberglass shingle types that are different in a more substantial way than just the mat?
Also, when I mentioned 'steel' roofs, I meant to say metal. Any comments on that option for the given application? I had the trees trimmed last year but now wish I'd had them do it more aggressively. Boy, if it's not the hospitable environment our forest affords mosquitos, it's the impact on my roof's lifetime!
Thanks again to all,
Dev
I was sloppy with my terminology. Both types of shingles I was referring to are asphalt shingles. The two types I was distinguishing were organic fiber asphalt shingles and glass fiber asphalt shingles. Sorry for the confusion.
I am not disputing that the problems with fiberglass shingles may have been corrected in recent years. But there certainly were problems with them in the past. I made my comments in order to warn the poster to be careful that what he chose was indeed recommended by the manufacturer and carried a certification for his climate, and to not blindly accept that all fiberglass shingles are suitable for cold and necessarily better than any organic fiber shingle.
Here's the JLC article, I believe. There's a $5 charge to read the full article which I'm not going to pay, so I can't be positive this is it. http://www.jlconline.com/cgi-bin/jlconline.storefront/3f59258200826d3b271a401e1d290615/Product/View/9305choo
I did not mean to incite the vitriol of any vitriophiles. I just wouldn't want the poster to be picking up shingles every spring like I did for ten years. ☺
Practical advice without going too deep ? - Don't sweat it either way. From your description, you are likely to replace it ine ten or twelve years before deterioration of either type sets in.
For myself, I would use fibreglas on solid sheathing or asphalt if shingling over the old. Only because the asphalt ones are slightly thicker and less likely to look bad / telegraphiung seams and shadows or wrinkles. But since you say this roof is pretty terrible, it's probably past time for any shingle over old work..
Excellence is its own reward!
You mention that your in the woods a bit. I reafd the previous posts but I didn't mention anything about fire resistance. Without an encyclopedic knowledge of all fibeglass and organic brands I can't say it conclusively and in all cases but I have read that fiberglass has a substantial edge over the alternative in fire resistance.
Not being an expert on roofing I may not be the best source but I would think that coming home to a house with a leaky roof would be better than coming home to no house at all.
I have also heard that fiberglass shingles have improved in the last 10 years and that some sources seem to think they are superior in many ways but this is Florida and good things here might work differently elsewhere.