Finally, a mandated inspection worth a d
amn.
Someone woke up one day and realized that penetrations in a building envelope WILL leak if they are not flashed properly. (And that far too many buildings are leaking.)
Our building department now requires all project plans submitted after July 1st include flashing details. Including through wall flashing at first course of masonry above finished ground, shelf angle and lintels and weep holes.
Window flashing and installation documentation and diagrams must be included with the design drawings in order to obtain a permit. Inspection will now be part of the dry-in inspection.
Replies
Ralph - Where are you from?
It sounds to me like this is another item sponsored by the insurance companies. As a general rule, I find them troubling. At least around here in suburban Long Island, the inspectors can't do what they should now, but their going to be responsible for making sure you comply with installation details for penetrations? I don't see it working as a practical matter. They're going to get up on 2nd and 3rd story scaffold, or roof scaffold to check this? Not. Building Depts here are backed up beyond belief - 6 months for building permits in my Town. In the next Town over they line up at 4 am to get a number because only 40 people a day can meet with a building dept. official (unless you are an expeditor and know where to meet them for coffee). It's a joke. The only ones that win are the architects. They can bill for a few more pages - but I doubt they like it either.
We just went thru a rewrite of the Code here. There are more metal straps holding houses together than the Eiffel Tower. I wish I owned stock in Simpson Ties a few years ago. But it's a farce. I have an old house (1885) with roof rafters nailed where they landed. 24 o.c., 22 o.c., opps we missed. No hurricane clips, no metal ties, just some toenails. In 120 years, the roof hasn't come off yet. The walls haven't come off the foundation either. Lots of others nearby and they haven't fallen down. How can that be? Hell, when this place was built, they didn't even have building codes.
Do me a favor, please? Put me down as undecided. I don't have any strong feelings. LOL
Don
We just went thru a rewrite of the Code here. There are more metal straps holding houses together than the Eiffel Tower. I wish I owned stock in Simpson Ties a few years ago. But it's a farce. I have an old house (1885) with roof rafters nailed where they landed. 24 o.c., 22 o.c., opps we missed. No hurricane clips, no metal ties, just some toenails. In 120 years, the roof hasn't come off yet. The walls haven't come off the foundation either. Lots of others nearby and they haven't fallen down. How can that be? Hell, when this place was built, they didn't even have building codes.
Oh boy, I can see it coming.......................I Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
Eric - Thanks for making me smile - twice. If you read my profile, you know Murphy + me go way back, and he wrote the law. Someone once told me that "hubris" meant spitting in the face of the Gods. Well, see if my picture's on that page. Don
This is Jacksonville, FL. Florida, home of Our Lady of the Perpetual Hurricane.
You remember Andrew? Striking south Florida 13 years ago and leaving a bit of a mess?
Post hurricane investigations turned up a LOT of substandard construction practices, especially in an area known for a bit of wind now and then, bringing about the rewrite of codes that were previously ignored or under enforced.
I'm originally from CT and have some construction experience there with older homes as well as the new we built around 1968. I was there when Dora? (I think) came through and although the water level inland at the Ansonia plant of Anaconda American Brass was well above your head, the damage was far from what was experienced during Andrew and the four major hurricanes that whipped Florida last year.
Unfortunately, insurance losses do power some of the changes made in the building codes and those changes are far ranging because the same companies that paid billions here in Florida are doing business in most other states and, with perfect hindsight, are going to do their best (worst) to prevent those losses in the future - everywhere.
Then there are the knee jerk, aftershock reactions of the AUTHORITIES, our government. More rules, more laws, more restictions, more MONEY, will solve all problems. There's a song that has a verse, "I've got the Power...", and they do.
So, since the existing rules regarding construction as well as common sense were avoided in some Florida construction we now have legislated common sense (HA) and more rules than you can shake a stick at. Have you ever noticed how large and detailed the penalties section of each set of statutes and rules is?
It's true that the inspectors are overworked in many places. Doesn't matter. They go out there, work at a comfortable pace, don't place themselves in dangerous positions (unlike the construction workers who hang out 3-4 storeys up building stuff the inspector is supposed to look at) and pick up where they left off on the list the next day. It's not a back breaking job. My projects typically have between 3 and 12 stages of inspections. It's not hard for a guy who is looking for a minimum requirement, has a rule to follow regarding that requirement, has seen a jillion of the same thing over and over again, to get out of his truck, look in the hole, see the steel tied off, maybe measure for the required depth and width and then go to the job box, sign the card and go to the next job where he might look at a bond beam or check out the hurricane and uplift fasteners against the engineers plans.
I admit the plan checking process is/can be slow. Under a certain dollar amount or SF footprint or other enumerated points I sign in, waste time waiting my turn and almost always leave with a permit in hand. All other times I turn in my package, wait for e-mail notification and then go pick up the permit. Sometimes there are one or more corrections or additions that the plans examiners want and sometimes they allow me to modify a drawing on the spot and other times I take it away for modificaton. But then I get to sign in, waste time waiting for my turn and get the change approved then and go away with my permit.
Where was I????
The point of my post...
Flashing is a part of the construction process that has been ignored, misunderstood, omitted or added as an afterthought (CAULK IT) with insideous consequences that only surface years later when part of a structure fails. See my thread about replacing cedar siding with Hardie and all the structural damage I had to repair on a recent job. A costly job that could have been avoided if the flashing and wrap had been up to snuff to begin with by a responsible, knowledgable builder or an inspection to see that the flashing details that must now be on the plans had been faithfully followed. We reap what we sow.
A costly job that could have been avoided
If you didn't do that costly job, you might have been unemployed!
Sounds like this is going to be an inspector rant thread. I've got a good story:
We had trouble passing our last inspection. The builder called us and told us that the inspector won't inspect it because there were already too many items on the first floor and he wouldn't bother to walk upstairs and take a look. Of course, this floored us and just didn't sound right. I personally was there on the last day, till the last minute and if there was something to do, it would have been done.
Frank went to have a look. The inspector had "found" about five items, all arguable (and winnable by us).
Now the rest of the strory. The inspector had showed up on a Friday afternoon just prior to Memorial Day weekend.
Do you think he might have been in a hurry to leave for vacation?
Anyways, Frank told the builder that the one item that might be legit could easily have been taken care of after the insulation and that he isn't going to do the other four items in any event. He also said that he wouldn't do the one legit item unless the inspector finished his inspection because we didn't want to make two trips for a three minute item on each floor. The builder passed this message onto the inspector. The inspector refused to come out and inspect.
A standstill.
Frank called the inspector. After a very heated 30 minute conversation, the inspector told Frank that he'd be out tomorrow and he was going to "nitpick" the hell out of the house. Frank basically invited him to do just that because we are 100% sure that we won't have anymore than ten minutes work no matter how hard this idiot searches.
The inspector came up with a whopping three headers that needed tightening, and the original one item. He also had to concede the other three or four items because Frank insisted that he produce evidence from a scientific source, or a code book. The inspector couldn't back up his claims, and had to let those items go.
This inspector is a framer in his previous life and he was trying to force his mentors preferences on us. We don't buy into their baseless claims of "quality" framing.
blue
We agree on pretty much everything, including the fact that a big chunk of the problem was/is caused by idiots and shortcuts who routinely escape personal responsibility. I'm actually glad we agree because I need to save my energy after I just said what I did before. The next hurricane, I'm toast...
> I have an old house (1885) with roof rafters nailed where they landed. 24 o.c., 22 o.c., ....
Back in the days of solid sawn decking and lath and plaster, there wasn't any good reason to be really precise about framing. When sheetrock and plywood came into widespread use (late 1920's - 1940's), it became worthwhile to land the lumber where the edges of the sheet goods would go.
-- J.S.
They're going to get up on 2nd and 3rd story scaffold, or roof scaffold to check this?
I always thought that yea they probably should get up there and check everything. I mean they might fail me for a few pieces of missing insulation or a couple of missing hurricane clips but they could let me get away with a crappy flashing job that will ultimately leak and potentially ruin a part of a building. Obviously that's bad for me and my reputation if I do a crappy job but they exist to protect homeowners from the hacks and if I'm a hack I don't deserve to be in this business taking peoples money.
I guess I get pissed when they hit me with a little thing but I could have intentionally neglected something big in an out of the way place and they would have no idea because they barely get out of the truck sometimes. For those of us who try to do the best job possible, who needs inspectors anyway but if the guy down the road got the job because he undercut me due to substandard building practices I want him to get nailed hard so he'll be out of the way for the next one.
I guess it's a double edged sword.
Are we talking theory, or practice? Should they do real inspections? Absolutely? Do they? A few do, I'm sure. But in percentages, it's a small number. I mentioned the two Towns nearby me. In my home Town, two guys from the Town just took a criminal hit for running a private security business from their office at work. Problem was, they were doing it with Town employees who were billed in on Town timesheets supposedly doing town work. These same clowns around here are harassing the crap out of a buddy of mine for picking up scrap metal (washing machines and refrigerators) on Town garbage day. At least 4 of these goons have followed him to his house, called him on his cell phone, threatened him with a 10K fine, left him nasty notes, etc. It's nonsense. He's not even breaking the law! When I had a sewer installation done, I was told that if there was ANY water in the hole, I would have to pay $200 for a pump because the inspector wouldn't put on boots. In actuality, he didn't even go into the hole. Looked at it from 9' up, passed it and ran. Never even went inside to check the trap, etc. Done and gone in 5 minutes. They should do their own jobs. Next door, Brookhaven - nicknamed Crookhaven, the Chief Building Inspector just got indicted for taking bribes. Innocent 'til proven guilty, but this case looks pretty solid. He's about the 10th county official to be caught.
I'm with you. I run out of eraser before my pencil is done because I make mistakes. But these guys act like they sit at the right hand of God. I really hate the arrogance as much as the laziness. I hate to see laws written that aren't enforced, that get followed up by stiffer laws because they didn't enforce the first ones! Keep up the good fight.
Right on!