Hello All,
I live in Washington State and want to do an addition on my house, I have the whole thing planned out in my head and could start building tomorrow if it wasn’t for the need for permits. Does anyone have any suggestions for finding a decent architect?
I’ve talked to a couple of buddies who gave me a couple of names, problem is that these guys are so busy I can’t even get a proposal out of them!
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Replies
The documentation needed for the permit will vary from location to location. What I did on my house was to draw up the floor plan and elevations and then take these to an ENGINEER (not architect). You provide the "look" and the engineer provides the needed footing sizes, joist sizes, beams, ... for the BO (building official)
Regards,
Roger <><
Did you draw your own plans with pencil and paper or did you use a computer program? I've been looking a program called "Chief Architect" and it looks really easy to use but it costs over $2,000! Hard to justify the initial cost for my 800sf addition...
When I did my first project back in 1976 -- I drew my plans on brown butcher paper and had them copied -- I used 1" to 1' Scale and sent my wife for the permit. The guy unrolled the plans, and said -- My God lady what scale did you use.
We did not have any problem, got the permit, and inspections went fine -- good luck
Most of our drawings were done with SoftPlan Lite (cost about $800 or $900 a couple of years ago). It suited me fine because we made many, many changes and saved big Architect fees. I have a friend who started with the cheap software package and then gave up and did it by hand.
You can produce your own copies at a Kinkos (or similar) copy center.
If you do the drawings with any type of software program how do you print out the giant pages that the building depts like? Do you save it in some special format and then take it to Kinkos to get printed? I can print out 11by17" drawings at work but I'm stuck for anything bigger...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
No, Kinkos won't let you put anything on their machines.
What I did was print it out at work on a big architecture style pen plotter. I do computer applications architecture, so we have quite a number of these.
I did talk to a local architect who uses SoftPlan and he said that he would be willing to print something out for me if I needed it.
For a regular printer, the only option would be to print it out on several 11x17 sheets and tape them together before copying. the BO (building official) should not have a problem with that as long as the copies he gets and stay on the job are usable.
There should be no need to tape together pages. Format the original drawing in its original software for the size needed (I use Arch D-36" x 24") and "print" it to a PDF file. Email that to a blueprint shop. That's it.I've never had a PDF corrupt. I've never had to burn to CD. I don't use Kinkos be/c they charge about double the prevailing rate. Look up "blueprints" in the yellow pages, check their prices, and get their email address. We do this all over the US.
The easiest thing for you might be to do what MrSQL said and literally cut and paste your way to a large format drawing and then run photocopies.
However, my local Kinkos has no problem with AutoCAD files. I don't know what sort of software you're personally using, but I think Kinkos can easily handle any sort of PDF; if you can figure out a way to paste your files together in a PDF format, they should be able to print it out in large format.
easy to do that too. Adobe lets you "tile" a PDF file
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It is pretty common with CAD programs to be able to print to PDF file and email or take that to a printer place. A couple years ago, you needed to have the printer driver for the type plotter that your local printer uses, but now the PDF format is nearly universal.
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Piffin,
You are correct. I just downloaded a complete set of prints (18 pgs.) for an addition that were e-mailed me by the architects who are out of state. I then copied them to a CD and dropped it off at the print shop. 6 sets, 24 x 36 done and bound in 1 hr. Emailing can sometimes be a problem , the slightest glitch in the transmission will cause the pdf file to read as damaged and unreadable.
"Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
A little hint is that when burning a CD or DVD with something important it is a good idea to select something other than the fastest write speed. Or at least that is what one of my computer geek friends told me.
I did the same thing as Mr Sol...drew it up myself then had an engineer stamp it off. The building department was perfectly happy with that, and it only cost a few hundred dollars. An architect will charge you thousands, even if you basically design it yourself.
Edited 6/7/2007 1:00 pm ET by ownerbuilder
Amen...I'm a PE here in Westchester Cty, NY (and in CT)..I'm trying to build up a practice doing just that...Drawings for builders..
Why pay a huge fee for an archy that's going to draw up something elaborate. I'll draw up (and make it code compliant) what you want to build..for alot less money..
Spread the word..I need more work..
Thanks
There are plenty of architects doing modest work for modest fees.
Most of them aren't telling people - "Why pay a builder when you can do it yourself" ;o)
Jeff
I did what MrSQL recommends. I drew the dimensions I wanted with pencil and straightedge and took them to an engineer. He did all the details the building department wanted and certified that it would meet their requirements. It cost about $250 since the project was small and simple.
Edited 6/7/2007 1:17 pm ET by Disputantum
I don't know about Washington State but having an engineer seal your plans is illegal here and in other states - check with your building department.
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I don't know where you are in Washington but I know a good architect on Mercer Island if that would help.
PS - Good people usually ARE busy!
Jeff
Edited 6/7/2007 1:32 pm ET by Jeff_Clarke
I'm in Redmond, Mercer Island is a stone's throw away... I'd love the contact info.
Dminiken,
I live in Seattle, and over here it's fine to have anyone draw up your plans. I do this type of work on the side so I know what I say is true. (I'm a contractor with an engineering degree, so I have good drafting skills and enjoy design work, too.)
But Redmond is not the same as the city of Seattle, so I don't know exactly what you're up against.
The best thing to do is to call the permitting office directly and find out what their requirements are.
In Seattle, for example, simple one story additions can often qualify as STFI (subject to field inspection) and have relatively simple requirements. STFI projects DO NOT require formal review at the permitting office and therefore can just be stamped off while you wait.
If you qualify for STFI, there is no legal requirement to get an architect or engineer involved. Joist sizing, footing sizing, etc., can just be determined by using the city's "precriptive path" guidelines.
So call the permitting office and see what they tell you. You might need to go in with your sketches for a "coaching" session (or whatever they call it) so they can say with certainty what you need to do.
Edited 6/7/2007 8:52 pm ET by Ragnar17
I checked with the guy on Mercer Island - he's only doing new work, not additions. Sorry -
Jeff
>> I don't know about Washington State but having an engineer seal your plans is illegal here and in other states - check with your building department. <<
But in still other states it is standard operating procedure. Here architects are rarely involved in residential projects under $2,000,000. All plans must be stamped - by either a architect or an eng, there just isn't generally a need for architects to be involved with that size project. Designers do the drawings and an engineer stamps them.
On the commercial work we do it is all drawn, sealed, and checked by architects though.
Edited 6/8/2007 6:21 am ET by Matt
Jeff,
I am not licensed as an professional engineer (civil PE ) or as a structural engineer ( SE ) in Washington state or any where else. However I am an EIT ( engineer in training or FE depending on where you're from). It means I have taken the first test on the way to getting an engineer's license or registration.
Normally what the seal or stamp indicates is that the engineer has done all the calculations and/or design involved or directly supervised the calcs and/or design and warrantee's that the work was done correctly to the standards or the law and industry ( meets code and is safe).
It does not certify that the engineer drew the drawings.
So in most cases you can draw the drawings, the engineer does the calcs and design, and then stamps, seals, and signs the drawings.
Local rules may vary from place to place.
Jim Hannah, EIT
In our state you can still, of course, do your own drawings for your own residence and that is as it should be.
Builders are permitted to do 'design drawings' but not 'construction drawings'. Engineers may seal drawings for certain building types (warehouses, industrial facilities, etc.). Architects may not seal certain drawings in the purview of engineers.
In our state what an architect's seal says is 'these drawings were prepared under my direct supervision' and 'plan stamping' (sealing plans prepared by anyone else) is not legal.
Building departments, which used to accept any code-complying drawings 'done and signed by the Owner' are now quite circumspect about what they'll accept as Owner-originated, since most Owners cant do code-compliant drawings.
Jeff
Edited 6/8/2007 11:53 am ET by Jeff_Clarke
Dminiken, go with Ragnar17's advice and see what the City of Redmond requires. I helped a buddy add a second story to his house in Seattle. They gave us a check list of requirements so I was able to draw up the plans to their standards. The plans sailed through without a hitch. But then again each jurisdiction is different.
Regarding CAD programs, Autocad LT is the cheapest way to go if you want to do you own drawings. And there is the learning curve associated with it. It will still set you back about $600, so you need to determine if it is worth it to bite the bullet or farm out the drawings.
Leland G. PE
dminiken,
As an architect I would say:
1. Find out if you legally need an architect. In many places you do not need one for residential construction.
2. Think about if you want an architect. You have you house figured out--if you want to draw it yourself and that is okay with your building department go for it. Architects can be more than anyone needs--but a couple of hours with a good residential arch could help you out. A good experienced builder might be even better for your purposes. Most people don't build a lot of houses and don't know the pitfalls so why not benefit from someone else's experience? Just know what you want/need going in! Changing your mind is how you spend money.
3. If you end up wanting/needing an architect word of mouth is the easiest way to go. If one arch is busy make sure to ask if he can recommend anyone. I personally don't do residential work but plenty of people as me for recommendations. I know people I trust to do a good job and am happy to give out their names. Most archys have previous employees who have gone out on their own or classmates/drinking buddies who they can suggest.
4. Remember architects are people, like contractors or clients. They vary widely--some are good some are totally impractical some are primadonnas some are idiots. Find someone you like and think you can work with--then get references.
As an architect who DOES do residential design, this is just the kind of call I hate. I refer them to a local drafting service. You will not find a really good architect to do this type of work for you unless they have no other work, which would not be a good sign, because if you are any good, you have lots of work right now. Architects don't just 'draft up' exactly what you know you want. Would you go to your doctor and say, don't bother diagnosing my problem or doing any expensive tests, or proposing any other treatment- just give me a prescription for that new fancy medicine I saw advertised on TV. Well you might try, but seriously, would you expect the doc to just write the scrip?
Anyway, what you need is a drafting company, or a draftsman. There are lots of them around here who will draw up your plans. Many of them specialize in houses and can produce a 'builders set' of drawings for a thousand or two. Check with your building official, and find out if you can have an engineer stamp the drawings. Lots of strutural engineers will do this. If you need an architect, see if you can find someone willing to review and stamp the drawings for you. You would most likely have to sign a waiver limiting their professional liability (you can't sue them because the heating system doesn't work, the roof leaks, etc. ) Most people around here charge about $1000 to review and stamp drawings. There are also some not so design oriented architects who will stamp the drawings for you. I work for one builder- I do the design sketches for a house for about $2000, freehand floor plans and front elevation only, and then they have an architect who can draw but not design very well draw it up and stamp it for about $1500.
This is not just about money- It is about doing what you do best. Architects are great at solving problems, turning people needs and dreams into a wonderful house design, making things look good, making renovations and additions fit with the existing building. etc. We are not the cheapest solution to a drafting problem: we have higher overhead because of the training and education costs (we pay higher salaries to staff), professional liability insurance, (over $30,000 per year for me last year) etc. A drafting firm has lower pay scales, lower overhead, and therefore charges lower rates, and probably also better suits your needs, which you are saying is to draw up what is in your head.
Of course, I am assuming that what you dreamed up in your head is buildable, will meet code, etc. If not, you probably should invest some money with an architect and get it right.
finedesign:
In what part of the country do you work?
Edited 6/10/2007 12:09 pm ET by Ragnar17
I agree with what you have well stated here.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"You would most likely have to sign a waiver limiting their professional liability .."
In our state, and I would assume others, this isn't possible. You cannot sign a legally binding document waiving professional negligence - under State law it would be declared null and void.
Jeff
ETA - barred in Delaware, also highly discouraged in NY State (indemnity for negligence)
Edited 6/10/2007 10:21 pm ET by Jeff_Clarke
HI Jeff;
I am in Pennsylvania. We cannot have someone waive away our responsibilities for professional negligence. However, you can have the owner sign a contract limiting your financial responsibility fro items that are errors, not negligence. We put this in nearly every contract: we limit our liability to our fee earned. This protects you against things that are not gross negligence, just mistakes. For example, one of our draftsman transposed a color number on a ceramic tile. The wrong color was installed. We had to pay to have it removed, and the correct color put in. If it had exceeded our fee, we could have limited the liability. Or the owner could not come back and say they wanted us to pay $100,000 for mental anguish. But if we did something really negligent, then they still have the right to sue us.
This helps us keep our fees in line. We actually get a discount on our professional liabiltiy insurance because of this clause.
Try the Not-So-Big-House website, they have a referral page to progressive thinking architects who prefer smaller residential jobs in almost every state.
------------------
"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
We retained an architect ~ 4 yrs. ago (moved in Jan '05) to help develop and refine our house design. We interviewed 3. Money well spent.
Good luck.