Finishing the interior of a “pole” barn
Good day everyone:
I have just completed erection of a 30×32 “pole” building. I have 2 questions:
1) I am looking for the least expensive & reasonably durable way to finish the interior. I am considering furring out the ceiling (trusses on 4′ centers) with normal furring strips, 2×4’s on the walls & covering both with 5/8″ 4’x8′ OSB panels. I am not interested in drywall with the necessary finishing required & it seems a little more expensive. With OSB I can fasten light objects (receptacles, etc.) right to the wall. What have you all found to be the best?
Additionally, in the corner where I will be setting up my welder, we used to cover the walls with aluminum sheets. I am now considering using the fire resistant sheets sold for around wood stoves. Are there other options?
2) I would like to install heat in the concrete floor e.g. “heat pex” or similar. Here is my naive question. Pictures show the tubing tied to the reinforcing wire. In my limited experience we did reinforcing wire one of 2 ways; Laid it on the ground & lifted it up with a rake until we supposed it was in the middle of the slag or spread the concrete 1/2 thickness, lay the reinforcing wire & then poured the second 1/2.
In this case I think the wire with the tubing attached should be setting on those “chairs”. How do you get the concrete in place without trampling the wire, puncturing the tubing, etc.?
You still need to move wheelbarrows & people around. Every concrete guy I ask replies “very carefully”. There has to be a better answer?
Thanks, John
Replies
osb ciel=yes
welding area=hardie cementitious panels
Crete and rad tube flooring heat=yes, careful pour and screed.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Lotel Meshups. Flexible plastic mesh chairs that spring back up after compression.
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!!!!!!! DAMM!!!!!! thems cool!Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Yeah, only thing I don't like is I think the smallest one is 2" tall and that puts the PEX in the middle of a 4" slab (which is where the heating engineers like it, but I worry about nailing into it).
I almost used them on my last job but decided against it as the slab was barely 4" thick after backfill. If I did a 5" slab, I'd use them.
Now, it could be that once you squash it down, it doesn't raise fully up to its original height, but I wasn't going to take a chance.
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
Edited 3/7/2008 8:00 pm ET by Riversong
Would not a lay out plan for the PEX be available to the potential "nailees" that may follow? Slab could be documented for partitions to follow, if I am reading you correctly. That is the only penetrations I could see.
Digital Pics. are a blessing.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Yeah pix and a plan are helpful, but if the PEX crosses a center bearing wall about every 12", your plan and actual installation would have to be pretty precise to make sure to miss each run.
And what about future renovations?
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
"And what about future renovations?"
Sustained employment for our studentia?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
With the system on, a hand held temp gun will give a fairly accurate idea of where the tube is. Some metal suppliers sell what they call shop liner, looks like the exterior metal but is kind of a second.
finish the inside with the same metal as the outside. buy some32' pcs of white and hang it on the clg,same on walls. if you ask supplier sometimes they have some 2nds. larry
if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
There was a discussion here a few months ago about "where in the thickness of the slab the pex should go". I believe that strictly speaking you get your best thermodynamic bang for your buck with the pex in the middle . . . but it was the opinion of NRT Rob ( I think. and I happen to agree with him) that, if proper EPS insulation was done under the slab, then the difference in thermodynamic performance probably is not measureable regardless of where the pex ends up. Some staple the pex to the EPS foam to keep the tubing from "floating" during the pour. Some lay the pex then place the welded wire mesh and leave it on the bottom for the same reason and because its less likely to get nicked if you are cutting a control joint. I think if you are really concerned about keeping the pex in the middle and concerned about trying not to step all over it during the pour, the best bet would be to use rebar in a 16" grid on chairs and tie the pex to it.
Edited 3/8/2008 12:53 pm ET by fingers
if proper EPS insulation was done under the slab, then the difference in thermodynamic performance probably is not measureable regardless of where the pex ends up.
It has been measured: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BPR/is_6_20/ai_102862289/pg_1
"The results again show that heat output drops off as tubing depth increases. The highest output (for the cases modeled) occurs when the tube is centered about 3/4-in, below the floor surface (about 25 Btuh/sq ft at l00° water temperature). Lowering the tube another inch into the slab reduces output to 24 Btuh/sq ft. Taking it down yet another inch lowers output to 22.3 Btuh/sq ft.
These changes are relatively small. However, look what the model predicts when the tube is located at the bottom of the slab. Here the output is only 16.6 Btuh/sq ft, about 31% lower than when the tube is centered 1.7 in. below the surface. Put another way, the slab with the bottomed-out tubing needs 115° water to yield an output of 25 Btuh/sq ft, compared to only 101° water temperature if the tubing were centered 1.7 in. below the surface."
Table of Insulation Material Properties<!----><!----><!---->
Average water temperatures needed for heat output of 15 & 30 Btuh/sqft.<!----><!---->
Upward Heat Flux Requirement (Btuh/ft.2)<!----><!---->
Tubing Depth 2" Below Slab Surface, Average Water Temp Required F°<!----><!---->
Tubing Depth at Bottom of 4" Slab, Average Water Temp Required F°<!----><!---->
15 Btuh<!----><!---->
95 degF<!----><!---->
102 degF<!----><!---->
30 Btuh<!----><!---->
120 degF<!----><!---->
134 degF ...[Message truncated]
Edited 3/8/2008 1:53 pm ET by Riversong
Man it just goes to show you that I can't get away with a "seat of your pants" type answer. Now I wonder what the actual difference in oil/gas/electricity used would be for those btu differences. Also is that for constant-state radiation. Sorry, that's my terminology. What I mean is, does the slab need those additional btu's once it reaches the design temperature. Probably huh?
Yeah, I believe that was steady state input with R-5 under the slab. Difference was in heat loss downward vs upward. Also lag time is much longer the deeper the PEX which can be a problem for set-backs or for shutting down the system when other heat sources (like sun) are contributing.
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
This thread reminded me of something.
I see ads for the aluminum between the joist systems
claiming greater efficiency then when in concrete.
How can that be with less thermal mass and the resulting
faster cycling?
Maybe that R5 under the slab? Confused
>Yeah, I believe that was steady state input with R-5 under the slab.
However, since the standard recommendation I see for underslab insulation is 2" of EPS/XPS, for an R8~10, wouldn't a lot of that difference start to go away?
Don
Edited 3/9/2008 9:23 pm ET by DonNH
you might want to think about painted steel as an interior option-screwed on,finish product,very durable..