Hello all,
I need some advice re firewood. SPecifically I need to purchase a cord or two, but I’m not sure how to determine how dry the wood is. I have 4 cords of oak split and stacked for next winter, but I need some for this year.
Thanks,
Matt
Hello all,
I need some advice re firewood. SPecifically I need to purchase a cord or two, but I’m not sure how to determine how dry the wood is. I have 4 cords of oak split and stacked for next winter, but I need some for this year.
Thanks,
Matt
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Replies
You know, then, from handling the four cords this year about how much a chunk wieghs wet versus dry, how much the end grain is checked, how the bark stays on oak when it's still green, and starts to fall off when it's about dry enough to burn.
Or is this an entirly different species? Try to go to where it is stacked before you have them deliver...or will you be picking it up?
Thanks for responding,
I do not know that much about oak, this is the first year that I have considered burning wood, and I do not this it is dry enough to exhibit the signs that you mentioned. I appreciate the insight. Are these also good indicators for ash or other hardwoods?
Thanks again,
Matt
Ash seems to dry quicker. There's a scale I read years ago that rated the number of btu's per cubic measurement by species, with a rating as well on how long each species would typically take to dry. As I recall, Hickory and Ash scored pretty well on both ratings, with White Oak right up there, followed by Red Oak, then the softer woods.
Maybe another poster here can supply a link to a similar scale.
Was the wood you put up this fall fresh and green? If so, you have something to compare with the lot you're thinking of purchasing. I've gotta say, the best way to assess how dry the lot might be would be to go see it in it's current stack. Lots of clues there, like how tall are the weeds around the stack? All wood darkens as is seasons and dries, so the darker the better. I even like to see a little black mold which, although it could be a sign of wet storage conditions (not a good thing)...at least it does indicate that the wood has been around a while and at least alot drier than off the stump, fully leafed out.
As you start to cut, stack, carry in, and burn wood season after season, you'll develop a feel and taste for dryness and burnability. Even poplar, if cut green and carefully stacked off the ground for 6 months to a year, makes decent firewood.
I think its a shame to cut up and burn good hardwood. especially ash! us furniture makers pay through the nose for hardwood, even wet. this summer I was fortunate to get my hands on a few trees that were beginning to show signs of disease so I cut them up and stacked them for drying. it took about two days worth of work but I got about $30,000 worth of great lumber. we then cut up all the branches and unusable material for burning.
Custom Cabinetry and Furniture
http://www.BartlettWoodworking.com
How did you get $30,000 in lumber in such a short time? Large crew?
Edited 12/12/2003 6:14:08 PM ET by BKHY
it took me two days with help to cut the trees down and cut the logs into 8 foot lengths. the mill company took a while longer to slice and grade, sticker and stack it.
Custom Cabinetry and Furniture
http://www.BartlettWoodworking.com
"$30,000 worth of great lumber..."
That's a whole bunch of dough for ash.
But retail on this wee bit of 12' 5/4 CVG DF doorjamb stock in the back of the truck after drying and planing would be about $1200 here....so ya never know.
A Morning's Work
“When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone. Let it be such work as our descendants will thank us for; and let us think...that a time is to come when those (heirlooms) will be held sacred because our hands have touched them, and that men will say, as they look upon the labor and wrought substance of them, ‘See! This our father did for us.’ “ --John Ruskin.
You pay to much for your wood,
ash is dirt cheap and plentyful. Many sawmills I know sell all you want for 80 cents a bd.ft. for select and are glad to get it.. If you can take more than 2000 bd.ft at once the price tends to drop and I've seen full semi's leave the sawmill at 45 cents a bd.ft.
last year I got my sister and a friend mill run 5/4 ash for 15 cents a bd.ft. (about 2800 bd. ft. total.) it had been air dried down to 12% MC. 4 months later when milled into flooring it was between 7 and 8 %
White oak too is about 80 cents a bd.ft. in smaller quanities.
I've paid as little as 17 cents for black walnut with most of the 10,000 bd.ft. I've bought so far right around 60 cents.
cherry tends to be right around $1.60 and FAS hard maple white and flawless (no brown streaks) varies between $1.00 to $1.80 depending on market prices.
But regarding firewood, visit a sawmill You can buy slab wood (that's the round part they slice off to make flat boards) for around 30 dollars a pickup truck load.. a tightly wrapped bundle of wood that is 4 feet wide by four feet high by 9 feet long.. it will contain slab wood, pieces of wood shorter than 4 feet and thinner than 4/4 It may also contain chunks of burl or crotch wood since that tends to downgrade a board as far as the grading rules go..
Hey Frenchy- where abouts are you? Those sound like excellent prices for hardwoods. I've gotten some cherry for $2 CDN/bd ft, but it was luck. I managed to find a farmer who had sawn up a couple of trees and stored it in a barn. He needed the barn space so the wood had to go. The trouble is I had to lug it 500 km from Ottawa...
Frenchy,
Yes, there are some geat bagains out there on inexpensive hardwoods. I used to drive up to a large saw mill in northern Michigan and pick up a batch. You had to take whatever species they were sawing that day and you had to take it as it came off of the saw (no picking through a pile). Still, the prices made it worthwhile. I don't use that type of quantity anymore so I haven't been back there in a while.
With regard to ash, we won't have any more of it around here (south-east Michigan) much longer. Several years ago, they discovered that the ash trees were infected with the emerald ash bore (an insect native to asia). Many trees were taken down last summer and the forestry folks I talk to say they'll all be gone in our county in a year or two. At this point, it's illegal to transport any ash products out of the county. I'm not sure if it's illegal to burn it. In any case, these measures don't seem to be working. The insect has been discovered in ajoining counties and across the Detroit river in Canada.
Chip
You need to learn to let go . Itll be alright.
Tim Mooney
You need to learn to let go . Itll be alright.
I have no idea what that means, or how to take that.
anyway, frenchy, i have read many of your posts talking about how you get great lumber for unbeatable prices. i always wish i had the sorces for that.
as far as getting $30,000 worth of lumber for myself it was not ash. it was black cherry, black walnut and curly maple.
when the cheepest i can get walnut here, dried but rough is about $9/foot it only takes a few trees to get a huge amount of savings.
Cherry goes for nearly $9/foot also, and curly maple is around $25/foot.
these prices go up significantly when the boards are over 10" wide
the property where i got this wood has never been logged before and the forest is about 40% black cherry, the rest being a mix of several other species. it is a 10 acre lot with a neighbouring property being 40 acres. the 40 acres was just sold to a logger for about half a million dollars and is now being logged only for its cherry, and they have made over 4 million dollars worth of lumber retail.
there are also neighbors who have now been persuaded to upgrade their furnaces to gas or oil in an effort to save the trees they would burn, and turn it into hardwood lumber.
Custom Cabinetry and Furniture
http://www.BartlettWoodworking.com
when the cheepest i can get walnut here, dried but rough is about $9/foot it only takes a few trees to get a huge amount of savings.
Cherry goes for nearly $9/foot also, and curly maple is around $25/foot.
Man! For those prices I'd drive my deuce-and-a-half to Ontario with my lumber. Will they let me in? Last walnut tree I sawed gave up a little over 700 bd ft, 80% FAS. Cost me a quarter (US)/ft to saw. That leaves a whole lot for transportation.
Are hardwoods that rare there? Wholesale here is a fourth, or less, what you're talking about. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
There are only two places within a reaonable distance from me to get good quality wood. here are some of the prices. Keep in mind that these prices are from july 2002 so most of the prices have gone up.
white ash $4.00
steemed beech $5.00
birch $4.75
Black Cherry $9.50
Black cherry over 10" $10.50
maple quilted 'AAA' $17.00
Hard maple $7.00
red oak $5.00
white oak $5.00
poplar $4.00
black walnut $8.75
Custom Cabinetry and Furniture
http://www.BartlettWoodworking.com
I own a 200 acre woodlot in Upstate NY and have access to some very nice hard and soft maple, ash, cherry, and red oak. I've been kicking an idea around to try to sell rough cut hardwood directly to woodworkers. You are lucky to get 50 cents a board foot on the stump for anything around here; always thought there should be a better way to do it. I can handle small quantities and saw to your specs. Thanks.
I would be more than interested! if you can email me at tom@bartlettwoodworking we can definatly work out a deal.
Custom Cabinetry and Furniture
http://www.BartlettWoodworking.com
We used to heat w/ wood. My Dad worked for the USFS at the time, knew where the logging operations were & cheapest places to get wood. After running the numbers: time, wear & tear on pickup, gas etc., he found it cheaper to have a logger drop a truck load of full lengths (12' - 16') off at the house. Would get home after a long day & unwind w/ a hand maul & chainsaw. In the time it would have taken him to just get out to the wood yard in the truck, he had 1/4 short cord cut & split. Some of this stuff was mine prop quality, all was good firewood.
I burn wood to heat my cottage at the lake, 1200sqft. While good firewood can be had around here for the picking and cutting, my age dictates that I buy the bulk of my firewood. My experience with buying firewood is to inspect the suppliers storage as someone else has mentioned here already. I get my wood each year from the same supplier but I always drive over to see what he's got first. This year he had salvaged wood from a forest fire. He intended to mix this salvaged wood into each load he delivered. Wood salvaged from a fire is covered with soot and charcoal and very messy on the clothes and inside the house. Because I went to his yard and ordered the wood I wanted, I don't have any of that salvaged wood.
This winter I'll burn the wood I bought last year. Next year I'll burn the wood I got this year.
Wood that's not properly dried tends to coat the inside of flue's very quickly, and increases the risk of chimney fires.
To your question on firewood, most hardwoods require a full year if cut, split and stacked before they are at their prime for burning. No rain and plenty of air movement. The weight and the checked ends are a good indication. Fairly soon (five or six fires) after using green or inadequately dried wood a black tar(creosote) will start to build up on your stove, chimney or fireplace surfaces. Try to avoid this, it is hard to clean and can cause a chimney fire.
If you can get a modest size piece of the wood you're wondering about, weight it and dry it in your oven at about 120F until the weight stabilizes. The difference between the beginning and ending weight is how much water was in it.
If you really want to move things such as fine wood without going through the "proper channels", get an old school bus and fill it below the window level.
Thanks. It's also a good 24 hr drive from here, probably more in a slow vehicle. Not likely.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!