im interested in attempting to do my roof over does anyone out there suggest anything before i start this project
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Staart doing deep knee bends, squats, jumpimng jacks, running in place, and pushups. When you get to the point you can do it for two hours straight and feel good about it, check back for step two.
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I did all those two years ago and I am still waiting for step two.
OK Tom. Go to the lumberyard and pick the kind of shingles you want to use, and read the label. After doing that, you will have some real soild questions.
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LOL.. I loved your post! I have doen a few roofs.. Geee.. Even AFTER the FIRST ONE!
DAMN.. Some folks like ME NEVER learn!
I laughed for 5 min. when I read your reply to that roofing inquiry. Nevermind the aches from crawling around on the roof, I was in pain thinking about the deep knee bends!
Whew! I wasn't een trying to be funny with that one guys. Ijjust know from experience that it is a young man's sport, and that getting in over your head can be unsafe and expensive.I also know from all those years on roofs thatoo many people have the attitude that "Rofing is easy, any idiot can do it" That is partly true, there are a lot of idiots doing it. Knuckle draggers with low euyebrows who have more brawn than brains or chemically induced idiocy, but too often when you hire a roofer because you have that attitude, you end up with a job that looks and performs liek only an idiot did it.disclaimer : This is in no way intened to reflect poorly on all the good hearted, well meaning idiots in this world who for no reason of their own, have been blamed and discreditied for all the intentioanl idiocy of the large number of persons in certain trades who practice intentional idiocy
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Welcome g, you are going to be in for a ride here when your first post is "first time roofing a house". Hope the guys here will go easy on you. :)
Really, they are a helpful bunch, be patient.
We need more information, what type of roof? How steep? How many layers of old roofing on the house? Where is the house (snow country)? How old is the house?
Forgot, Welcome to BT!
the house is about 25 feet high but it does have two layers of asphault roofing its an old house about 110 years old and is in new hampshire weather you would consider that snow country or not . I do have experience in building but never tried doing a roof this is my first home and im really gun hoe in doing the work to the house myself but dont know where should i start.
You'll need to set staging of some sort at the eaves so you can do the roof work.Do you have access to any or be able to rent it?Sounds like a pitch that will require roofing brackets cause it's too steep to walk on comfortably.
You'll most likely want to use some backup protection at the eaves.
You'll have a lot of debris to dispose of so a dumpster is a must unless you have a small dump truck or trailer to use.
I always strip the old roof starting at the top and work down.This enables you to prepare the roof deck with felt or synthetic as you work your way down the roof.Really helps if you're working alone,since you can keep the roof dried in above you if that side takes a while to strip and prep.
Nailing them on is the easy part except for getting them up on the roof.
Some yards will boom them up for you,which might be feasible if the prep work is complete.
Edited 4/5/2005 5:11 am ET by slateman
How steep is the roof? Estimate the pitch for us... how large is the house - ie; 1800 sq ft 2 story, etc... Valleys? Chimneys? a pic of the house?
Matt
What pitch roof?
I would talk to a roofer and get a price for a clean install after you strip the roof. I assume you'll be roofing after work and on weekends, so you'll be doing it for at least a month unless you have 3 or 4 guys helping. A roofing company will do it in a day or two. You don't need to worry about tarps, water damage while you have the roof open for a month, etc. If you get a roofing crew that framers sub out too, you'll get a very good price and its just not worth the effort to compete against that.
Like others have stated, roofing is a rough gig! 1st thing I would do is check the type of wood that is above the raffters in the attic. In my past life we bid a roof replacement on an older house. Strip the old off & install new. Ran in to a small problem that grew! House was built pre ply-wood. Skip Sheating 1x 4 pine.
IN order to do the job right, had to install new ply-wood. This added $$$ & 2 times more in labor.
If it was just an overlay of your roof I would say Go for it! But this job sounds like you might want to let the Pros do it.
If you do take this job on , always side on the side of SAFETY! Roofing has one of the highest Comp Rates, because of the safety factor. As we say around here, "Roofing ,it's a Young Mans Sport!"
Go up in the attic and see what you can learn from the underside of the roof. Poke at the sheathing and rafters, do you have termite damage or rot anywhere? My little roofing project ended up going all the way down to the second floor studs, and building back up from new top plates.
As many have already told you, it's dangerous. You may get used to walking around up there in a few days, but then you step on some loose grit, or an air hose, or anything that can roll under your foot. You can't depend on friction, you need a rope and harness.
And it's hard physical work. I tore off over 3000 pounds of tile, and humped 3/4" ply up there. You really do need to get in shape, and not over-do it at first.
-- J.S.
I've been there and done that. I am not a roofer but I read the Taunton book and my daughter and I did 30 squares in about 3 weeks. Yeah I was slow but in no great hurry. Rented the dumpster and shoveled off the old into a big tarp spread out on the lawn then I took the time to open up the roof over the top plate on the outside wall and folded up the insulation and replaced it with blue board extending about 4 feet centered over the plate to allow air movement (scissors truss's) renailed all the exposed sheathing that the original framer had missed the truss'w with his staple gun. I went with six courses of ice and water shield, fun stuff to work with the first time, about a buck a foot here a few years ago. I used a Bostich coil nailer and 3 tab shingles 6 nails per and back tabed (glued) the ones on the roof that catch the most wind. I used SBS 100mph rated shingles. I split my shingles into three piles and had help humping up to the roof 4/12 pitch so not too bad to work on. Figured I spent about 3-4 k on the job, still have the long fiberglass ladders, jacks, compressor etc and sold the nailer for almost what I paid for it. I came out about 2-4k less than the nearest bid without the extra work needed that I did myself. Sure wish I had one of those ladder lifters tho. Been four years now and no leaks, had 90 mph winds a couple of times and no problems. I also cut in ridge vents on both roofs for good ventilation. No more problems with ice dams either. Good luck and be safe. Take your time, have big tarps in case of rain, shingle nails and lath to holdem down with just in case.
Why six courses of ice and water shield?
Jon Blakemore
I'm guessing, but he mentioned ice dams and a 4 pitch.... lots of I&W sounds like a good idea to me too.
Around these parts (Mn.) ####lot of post WWII houses were built with 4/12 roofs--nowaday 6 is min. and many are far steeper. a fair number of older reroofs are covering the the whole deck with I&W and many of those have no valleys. Like my 4 hip. Funny how I went to build an overhead lumber rack in my garage and discovered that my 4/12 roof is really 4.68.
The house and garage were hand framed-probely by a "rafter man" and that must have been his favorite set of numbers.To look at the point at the roof peak it is obvious that they knew what they were doing cause all the hip and jack rafter come to a nice intersection." I reject your reality and substitute my own"
Adam Savage---Mythbusters
Re: 6 courses of I & W, could be over kill but the local code says 4' above the plate plus I have about a 3' eve. I seen some up here that cover the entire roof. In this climate it pays to be on the safe side. The only extra expense is a couple of boxes of I&W and a little time. As a diy'er its better to error on the side of over built rather than being under. BTW at that time I did not have to pull a permit. I understand now that the local muni. is requiring permits for anything over $500. I wanted to be covered so to speak if I ever have a inspection when/if I ever sell the old home stead.
I don't know if gbrooklyn decided to do his own roof or has taken the advice offered. But, I'm borrowing his thread.
HO, here. Shingle replacement today. It's not 'right' to post a job chronology for someone else's work, but I'll give a few key updates, in case gbrooklyn or others are listening.
We chose this company after watching across the street - a little army, well-organized come and gone cleanly and quickly. Let's see if our experience is same.
Day 1 - Morning.Before 7 am materials are dropped off silently.9:00 sharp a box truck and 3 guys arrive. Three ladders, power ladder, compressor, tarps, TONS of plywood sheets and two large foam bum-cushions (that seems to be a widespread trick). by 9:10 all windows, doors, AC units, bbqs on this house and two neighbours are well protected and tear-off is on. Stuff doesn't rain down at random but in well aimed avalanches.By 11. Supervisor has visited, bin delivered expertly. Guys says he was told two-layer tear-off (sales guy knew it was 3) but says, 'don't worry about it, should be done today. Nice colour'.
I'll give you an afternoon update.
Update on using pro roofers - tear-off started at 9:10.1 pm. Tear-off complete and roof decking inspected by supervisor. Can hear material is now being added - unbelievably smooth and quick rhythm of air-nailer at one end, while tidy-up keeps ahead. Now multiple hammers, compressor and a saw, all in syncopated beat.
-------------------Man, any BTers finding it hard to get work should move (Toronto, mature residential neighbourhood). On just this one residential block, of about 20 homes, there are 15 pro tradespeople hard at work on four jobs: one new home (infill); one addition being bricked; one front stoop being rebuilt, and a roof. Should be five. New kitchen+painting across the street is quiet today. It's not like this only in spring, either. I guess curbing urban sprawl doesn't need to mean job losses in building sector.
Update on watching the pros. Started at 9 this morning. At 4 pm, the main roof is entirely reshingled, reflashed, several new vents. Now doing bay windows. One guy with a shovel and wheelbarrow is taking waste to the bin. He's sweating really hard. This small roof took 46 packs of shingles -- what would 4x that weigh? That's the amount of material moved around just today.Watching this is making the HO tired. Time for another nap. ;-)
Edited 4/22/2005 4:11 pm ET by hacknhope
I love work...I could watch it all day. :-) It is fun to watch a team of pros go to town like that.
Ah, the roofers are just finishing up in a light cold rain and vanishing light - but they couldn't stop because when its inspected tomorrow, in rain, it has to be right. No real break in 12 hours. The property is spotless. The 20 yard bin is 2/3 full. There's nothing for us to put away but our dinner plates. They've even swept the place with a magnet. And tomorrow we wake up rested, and its like they were never here.Pros. It's a good thing.
How about the price?
<<how 'bout the price?>>
Not having to do it? Priceless. If you are asking seriously, it is hard to judge potential savings. To little for us even in straight dollars, before time, hassle and personal risk. We did comparison shop but did not consider DIY. As non-pro, private citizens, our inflated disposal, materials and equipment costs would have eaten into the savings deeply. Very different for someone with the physical skills to do the work more quickly, and in the business.
We just like to know what the going rate is in other parts of the Good old USA!
Oh, we're in Toronto, Canada, and prices in the city are 2 to 3 times what they are in other parts of Ontario. We've seen in BT threads before huge differences between core New York or Chicago pricing, relative to small town USA.
That is less than two tons. about 3700 lbs x three = 11040 or five and a half tons. Samll roof.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Air nailer or hand nailing -- I keep asking this question, and get conflicting but very helpful answers on BT. I'm wondering what your take will be. The question is whether I should invest in a nailer to do a shed roof requiring about 4.5 squares. This will be my third roof, but I've always nailed by hand before. I work alone, and need to finish on time. When I pose this question, some say that a power nailer really speeds things up, others say that it wouldn't make that much difference for an amateur, especially one unfamiliar with compressors, hoses, etc. What do you think?
We're total hacks and rented an air nailer to do a small roof (first and probably last time doing our own roofing - maybe third time borrowing or renting any nailer).
One professionally-qualified friend gave us quick lessons and a second gave us all the safety tips the first had neglected. Way faster and less tiring with power nailer. Rest and be patient and tidy - for safety. We had very few problems (must be sheer blind luck), and had way way more fun.
Adding: Seriously try not to work alone. Safer to have someone you can work with standing by if only to pass you things; tend the air hose.... I think it's all the awkward movements of setting something down, and picking it back up, shifting materials, shifting your own weight that 1) add huge amounts of time to the job for those of us with unpracticed movements; 2) provide most of the opportunites to trip on the hose or fire a nail through your foot.
Edited 4/22/2005 12:02 pm ET by hacknhope
Thanks -- that's helpful. But I don't like the part about firing a nail through my foot! Ouch.
4.5 squares is about a thousand nails. Hand nail it. You'd have the first square on by the time you got the equipment out. The thing that will speed you up the most is the ability to flip nails in your hand to get them turned the right way and get them between your index and bird finger so the points are down when your palm is up. It hurts a lot less to hit that side of your fingers than the side of your thumbnail with a hammer.STOP, DROP, ..............ROCK 'N' ROLL
greencu invented the bruised finger.
sobriety is the root cause of dementia.
It depends a lot on what kind of shape you're in and how much money you feel like spending. If you're old, feeble, and rich, get an air nailer. Young, strong, and broke, do it by hand. Between those extremes, you gotta figure it out for yourself. ;-)
I borrowed an old Bostich for my 3 squares. I think it was pretty close to a wash for me, but mainly because it jammed a lot.
If you do nail by hand, hold the nails up near the head when you start them. That way if you miss, the hammer head tends to push your fingers out of the way instead of smashing them. No absolute guarantee, but it helps.
-- J.S.
The question is whether or not you can use the equipment again or sell it for less than you would loose on the rental. In my case I was putting down 30 squares and for the amount of time the equipment rental usage charges would of more than paid for my purchase and resale of the nailer. I use the compressor in my shop, didn't have one before. If I were only doing 4-5 squares I think I would hand nail it too. Good luck with your project.
I just "lend't" my cheap PC roofing nailer to a buddy that was working on my curent project. I bought the coil nailer as a throw away about 7 years ago ... hoped it'd make it thru that one job .. 17sq ... and it still hasn't died. Bought it used for $125.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Go to the library, get out every book that has "roof" in the table of contents, read them all; then decide whether you want to do it yourself.
Flashing can be very complex, and if you do it wrong, you get water inside the house. Think a lot about how you'll do each step.
If you do decide to do it yourself, and if you're doing composition shingles, you've got two choices for fastening them down: air nailer or hammer. If you decide on "hammer," seek out a gauged shingling hatchet - it will increase your efficiency by about 200% over just a hammer.
If it's a steep roof, much over 4 in 12, you may want to rethink it - steep pitches can be pretty dangerous for the innocent. But if you proceed, regardless of the pitch, get a fall protection harness and kit.
Is this enough to say, "do your research!"?
I'll accept that you ARE doing research by posting this Q, but this is a DISCUSSION forum. We need feedback from you. There are a dozen different kinds of materials, and techniques vary by climate, material, pirtch of the slope, style of home, etc. if you can fillu s in on some or all of that, you will find more helpfull advice.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Welcome to the forum... stick around, there's a lot of good information to be had here.
I recommend you start your endeavor here...http://www.taunton.com/store/pages/070602.asp
It's a good book and covers most of the basics you'll need to get you started. I will suggest that you heed the other fellas warnings regarding the pitch of your roof and considering hiring it out to a pro. Roofing is hard work and dangerous work... tough combination. Consider volunteering your labor to a roofing outfit for a day and see if you think you're up to the task.
That being said.... If your roof isn't terribly steep or complicated you can probably do a job you'll be proud of. Start with the book. Do your homework so you know exactly what you want to do before you get up there. Invest in the proper safety equipment, including ladder jacks or pump jacks for your first course, plenty of roof brackets, a good harness, and stiff walk boards. Have a tarp ready to pull over before the rain hits.... don't be scrambling for a tarp when it's already too late.
Roofing is very demanding, but very rewarding because of the sweat involved and the shelter it provides. I wouldn't want to do it everyday, but a couple roofs a year helps me to remember how much I appreciate my roofing sub!
Keep us posted, and good luck!
Yes, read the package and you'll know everything you will ever have to know about roofing.
If you read the entire package, you'll probably know more about roofing than 50% of the roofers in this country.
blue
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
"If you read the entire package, you'll probably know more about roofing than 50% of the roofers in this country."LOL!!! Sadly all too true.Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.
We cut our teeth with an uncomplicated one-storey job. Came out very well, but I simply wouldn't do a big or complex job as DIYers or first-timers.
Pros will come and go in two days, or less, and leave the property spotless. You may save little when disposal (huge mess, very heavy), rentals, and waste materials are considered, not to mention time and risk. See photo of power ladder (from http://www.nationwideladder.com). Think of it when you go do HD and pick up just one pack of shingles to put on your cart. ;-)
View Image
Read most of the responses you've gotten so far and one thing I'll throw in, not being much of a roofer myself, but I can walk an 8/12 comfortably, is that I see a lot of the hispanic crews around here using a old foam cushion from a couch, etc, with the covering off for grip on a 10/12 or greater roof. I thought at first this was for comforts sake, but they told me they use it for grip to avoid slipping off a Mt. Everest style roof. Seems the foam will grab and hold on either the decking or the shingles. Never tried it myself, but they scamper around up there with no probs.......
If you aren't one of the one's I'm talking about,you shouldn't have any complaints....
The side with the granules goes up.
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
these guys sure give you a lot to consider, as I get older I like doing a lot of things but soon I think what is my time worth? roofing is hard work, messy, and opens up not just a can of worms but the whole farm check with the pros first before you decide to diy tradesmen love to talk about their work. also if you handbang it place the nail between your two upsidedown fingers not holding it with your thumb and forefinger a misplaced blow of the hatchet and it will be hard to hold anything but your thumb eventually does heal wf1
One definite suggestion before you start: get yourself a policy of disability income insurance so you get paid in case/when you fall off and break your leg and are laid up for a couple of months/years while it heals/if it heals.
Then, just to keep it interesting: get youself a nice fat life insurance policy, preferably with a double indemnity in case of accidental you know whats for the DW or SO or your Mom for all the crap she put up with (don't they all?) in case/when you fall off and are laid out for eternity.
Cheery b*st*rd, aren't I?
Griff