Any suggestions for a first time concrete pour. It’s only 4 yards and it’s my own house so if I screw up a little I can live with it. I read the article in the last issue but can always use any other suggestions. Also, it’s only going to be me and a helper. Should I have some more people if I can get them?
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There are many people who would love to help, but
you need to provide some idea of what your doing and
where you are.
dude, the guy is in Philadelphia.
As Henley's temporary alter ego...
He didn't have his profile filled out when I posted.
You might want to do an Advanced Search. There was a thread on this a couple of months ago. As I remember the advice ran along the lines of "The more the better", and "Get a friend with some experience to drop by".
Good luck
Have someone with experience look over your calculations of how much concrete to order. Don't ask me why I think this is a good suggestion.
with more info. we can respond better, but I just helped a friend with about a 5 yd. patio last weekend. We had 5 guys, but then three of us had to wheel barrel it from the alley to the house. All of us have placed concrete before.
It is definitely easier if you have someone who knows what they are doing to help. There are so many variables that can get you into trouble if you are not aware of what to look for. The easy part is getting the concrete into the form. The hard part is getting it leveled or sloped the way you want it and then knowing when and how to finish it.
IMO, keep it simple, don't try to texture, stamp, stencil, or stain. Have plenty of manpower, and have at least one person who has placed and finished concrete on the crew. Designate them as the foreman and let them direct everyone else on the crew.
If you don't have that, I would suggest starting with something much smaller than 4 yds. Even try a small 3'x3' door pad just to get a feel for working with concrete.
Remember, concrete is very unforgiving. From the moment it is mixed, the hydration process begins and you are working against the clock. If you are not experienced, that clock can be your worst enemy.
The only thing worse than placing concrete is having to tear it out because something went wrong during the pour.
You cannot convey tone in an email.
Cover it with polyethylene (visqueen,etc. ) after finishing. Wet it down good and then put the plastic down.
My bad for not giving the details. It is a patio that will extend an existing one. It will have a smooth finish. It will be ready mix and they can drop it right into the form. I've done wet beds for showers but that is my only experience with cement. My main concern is what you guys have stated with the amount of time, or lack there of, that I'll have to finish it off.
Edited 9/9/2008 9:17 pm ET by Derr82
Maybe you used 'cement' in your shower ... but this is 'concrete' we are talking about. Semantics, but if you are going to play w/ the material, you need to start talking the lingo. They both contain cement BTW. And remember ... concrete doesn't dry ... ever. It "sets". And it gets stronger as it gets older. Keep it real wet for 1+ week after you're done ... it will like you for it.
I agree w/ the other poster ... have someone that has poured. It is just a patio ... but might as well put the effort into doing a good job. Any job worth doing at all is worth striving to do it well.
"Semantics, but if you are going to play w/ the material, you need to start talking the lingo."
Dat's right. One is ceement, the other is cement. Spelling and pronouncation is important.
BTW, Derr, put the plastic sheeting down AFTER the ceement has set up. You'll fornicate the finish otherwise.
Edited 9/10/2008 10:07 am by peteshlagor
I'm far from green with building materials so I know the difference between cement and concrete. If you have ever done a wet bed the only thing missing is the aggregate and a lot less water. Anyway, I'll take your suggestion of keep it wet with my notes.
Edited 9/10/2008 1:14 pm ET by Derr82
Don't be afraid to tell the driver to pull up or back up as much as it takes to get the chute where you want it, try to take as much work out of it as possible. With two guys you will by BUSY! Start with the chute on one side of the form and try to place the mud as evenly as possible. If it is a front load truck then the driver should be able to see your progress and do his part, if it is a rear unload truck it really helps to have someone looking in the driver's mirror and signaling - let the truck do the work, that is why you are paying for redi-mix and not mixing it yourself.The better the original placement, the better the finish. Two guys on the screed board and another(2-3) with rakes moving material in front of the board or hooking the board with rakes and helping to pull will help tremendously.Do you have a bull float or just hand tools? Don't trowel too much before the concrete is beginning to setup, that will bring too much "cream" to the sruface and may be more prone to spall and chip later on. Without a bull float you will have to work a little harder once you get out on the slab with your knee boards and trowels and you should probably cover the entire surface twice with hand trowels to get the best finish. A round nosed pool float works really nice for hand finishing.Good luck!
"If it is a front load truck then the driver should be able to see your progress and do his part"
The only place I've seen a front load truck is in FHB. It must be much easier to pour slabs using one.
My best suggestion is make sure the fill under the slab is well compacted. Call it an unprofessional opinion if ya want - I'm no concrete expert. but I think that's why a lot of concrete cracks based on my limited experience.
If you can't win, make the guy ahead of you break the record
Hire a finisher to help. This concrete will be costing you several hundred dollars plus money for the forms, rebar, etc. Since you've never done a slab, what makes you think you can trowel this one? I too am a very adept craftsman who takes on all sorts of projects. But I can say for certainty that troweling concrete is a learned craft. I've done it a couple of times (not too well) and I'd never attempt 4 yards with just another helper. Simply watching doesn't make it. You can help the guy, but have him there just in case.
Right after the float, run a big bristle broom accross it. It might hide some mistakes. Don't let them fool you, it's not that hard. Read up on it a bit before you start making the forms (which, by the way, have to be dead-nuts square and level--no excuses!). Use screws, some of you might laugh, but I was on a job were the carpenter who built the forms used nails--and installed them from the inside, when the forms were about to be removed and the lead-man figured it out, he cussed that poor boy up one side and down the other. I felt really bad for him. And even for a patio, you want footers. You might think monolithic.
p.s. my company used to build their own transformer pads.
Not just any bristle broom. One needs the thin models found at Real Ceement Stores. The big monsters plug up with the cream and sand. The thin ones will be bounced clean betwixt passes. Don't rinse them between as the extra water retained will dilute the finish and mess it up.
you are screwed
From personal experience. I've watched concrete finishers they make it look easy. I tried what I thought was a small pour.... till I jackhammered it out and got a pro.
I hate jack hammers which explains why I no longer do concrete.
BB,I have been away from this board for awhile, trying to wrap up my project. It's always a kind of therapy for me to come back and read posts by you, Luka, etc. You guys make me laugh out loud.Thanks
Kevin
Here's where I'm at now. Found a guy who finishes concrete and will be there with me and my helper. So I'll be the second helper and follow his lead. Thanks for the input and I'll tell you guys how it turns out.By the way, my profiles has been filled out since I started posting here about 6 years ago.
You are in luck, call the cement finishers union hall and get a pro to finish the concrete. Philadelphia has some of the best tradesmen in the USA, including cement finishers.Explain to the business agent that you are a homeowner and a novice with concrete.He'll take it from there.
Please do not try to pour and finish 4 yds with yourself and a helper, both of you will be exhausted at best,with a lousy finish. Even pouring out of the truck and no wheeling is just the begining.Shoveling,raking and screeding come next. This all requires work that can kill you if your not used to it. Then you have to float and trowel the concrete.
If you think I'm trying to scare you out of pouring this slab without professional help,I am,for your health.
mike
I've done less than 10 pours, mostly patios front steps. I've got a CC finishing expert buddy that I pay to come help me.
After this many I feel only slightly confident that I could handle it alone.
Find somebody who knows what they're doing--pay beg borrow or steal that person for the afternoon.
It is always better to have too many than not enough. When I first started pouring concrete, I did a lot of helping friends type of jobs. The most important things to consider are:
Make sure you have all your tools ready to go on the job site
If you live in a dry and hot climate, wet the ground before the pour so that the ground doesn't suck the moisture out of your concrete causing it to cure to fast.
If you have called in concrete truck to bring the concrete, don't let the driver pour out more concrete than you can handle at a time. You payed for the truck he nows workds for you. A lot of drivers are on a time schedule and like to pour out the pad and leave and the workers are stuck trying to screed concrete while the concrete is curing up.
Try to pour in the coolest time of the day it will give you more time to work the concrete.
If you have squirells, hang around until it sets up some. It is amazing the track patterns they can leave, but it is cheaper than stenciling ( they only work for nuts).
If you have a dog, tie him up.
If you have deer , camp out by your patio overnight.
Good Luck with it.
"If you have a dog, tie him up. "
Perhaps the single best piece of advice yet. Dogs and fresh ceement are drawn together by some unknown invisible force.
Add ponys, cows, calves, and peacocks to that list. I have all of those decide a fresh slab is an attraction.
It is amazing just how deep a peacock sinks into fresh mud when they land after flying down from a neighboring tree.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Add ponys, cows, calves, and peacocks to that list.
And small boys up to the age of about fifty.
Shoot, I still can't resist putting the date in the corner. It's the ancient form of tagging.
Derr, Im in southern NJ- We can come help you w/no charge. Well maybe some gas money. Let me know where you at and if you need the help.
Lou
I love it when we, as a community, can help each other.
Anyone can type a reply, but real help sometimes requires more.Kudos to you Lou!
Hell, I'll even buy lunch. Email me [email protected] with your # and I'll gve you a call.
Shanks? Nicks Roast beef? Tony Lukes? Still need help?
Lou
I'm not in Philly any more. Just over the bridge in Jersey. I should update my profile. The pour is delayed for a bit. The wife wants carpet in the LR instead. So maybe in a week or so.
Derr, I'm 10 mins from you-
Lou
Im in southern NJ- We can come help you w/no charge.
I know how you feel. I'd do almost anything to get out of NJ myself.
Even if it meant going to Philly.
:-)