I acquired a fireplace insert that I hope to put in a basement fireplace. The fireplace has an ancient Heatalator that was installed in the masonary. It has a grill on either side at the borrom and a large grill at the top. Unfortunately there was not a cap put on the flue for many years and it has rusted in the fire chamber.
The chimney is a pretty massive three flue brick and clay liner built by some excellent masons back in the late 50’s. I had thought about just using some standard black flue pipe down the existing and connecting it but there is about a 30 deg jog and the metal back (not sure of right term) slopes toward the front and would be very hard to get anything but a rectangular pipe through. The output flue on the insert is roughly 5×10.
I had thought about just sealing off the three grills and letting it rip. The flue looks perfect and has had very little use over the years. I plan to use this as a backup and to knock the edge off heating requirements occasionally. This part of the basement will become my shop eventually.
We have the old house of about 1350 sq ft with full basement and oil furnace and 1724 sqft addition with full basement and a heat pump for the upper part. Have not fired the furnace yet this winter.
Any advice? Thanks in advance, Bob
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Check with your insurance company as to what they want to see for liner, breech connection and clearances to combustibles before they'll insure you. In Canada, all inserts are now required to be certified by a recognized testing agency and to be fully vented by a stainless steel liner even if the existing chimney has a clay liner.
Do it once safely!! Uncertified appliances have unknown heat radiation characteristics and sometimes "hot spots" at their surfaces and therfeore are an unknown quantity.
Thanks, will see what I can find out. It has a testing label, need to check out the info. Could not find any info on Fisher except that they licensed the design.
There' a good reqason for the full flue liner. When an insert that is designed to exhaust through say, a seven inch round flue is inserted into a flue that is a square 9x12 or whatever - larger size - the smoke will drift and not draw well. Extra condensation of creosote is the result, leading toi increased chances of a chimney fire, especially since it is now harder to clean with the insert.
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Thanks. kind of what I expected to hear. Will see if I can find pipe to do it right. Like I said before it is not like this is going to be the mail heat source and used continuously. This flue is 12x12 outside and the outlet is 5x10 so what you ae saying sure makes sense. The distance from top of insert where outlet is to the top of liner is 22.5'.
They also have flexible SS liners that should help you get around those jogs. they are available in different widths and lengths but to get the right ones you have tocontact the manufacturer, or the Bldg dept. in your town.
Thanks for input. Doubt if the local building insp. will have any great info, pretty small county. Have not had any luck finding anything on the manufacturer. Will check for pipe.
Fisher has been out of business for quite a few years.
That's what I thought. I found a kit that looks like it will do just what is needed for $475 shipped. I think I will just buy oil and put in one of the two Monitor heaters I have around the basement. I have a mountain of oak all seasoned sitting outside all racked up and covered. Hate to not put it to use.
One of the sites I looked at says I would probably be ok in that I have 50 sq" cross section flue outlet on insert and 100sq" flue. Since the chimney is mostly outside you need two to one, if inside you can use three to one.
http://www.chimneysweeponline.com/stainlessliner.htm
One of the sites I looked at says I would probably be ok in that I have 50 sq" cross section flue outlet on insert and 100sq" flue. Since the chimney is mostly outside you need two to one, if inside you can use three to one.
From my experience in the wood industry as an installer/ trainer/advisor (I have a Master's Certification in Canada), I would go with the 6" liner (if that's the outlet size of the insert) from the stove to the top of the chimney- this is a code reuirement here. The advice above is quite "loose" and doesn't give the best info for the situation.
Edited 1/2/2006 10:09 am ET by experienced
Did you look at the link? What I put in the post was a short paraphrase. My flange on top of the insert is 10 3/8 x 5 3/8 outside dimensions. The clay liner is 12x12 outside and closer to 10 x 10 inside.
Thanks
Lining Your Fireplace Insert Flue
View Image
" Where a wood-burning fireplace insert is ventedinto a chimney with an oversized flue, into anunlined chimney, or into a chimney with a damagedmasonry liner, the chimney shall be refitted with aproperly sized UL Listed metal or masonry liner."
-WABO Codebook (From NFPA 211)
Q: We're about to buy a new wood-burning fireplace insert, and our local dealer refuses to install it unless we buy a stainless steel liner that goes all the way out the top of the chimney. Do we really need to do this? If so, is it something we can do ourselves?
View Image A: You're required to reline a chimney for a woodstove or wood insert if the existing flue is oversized, unlined, or has a cracked or damaged liner. The big issue with fireplace insert installations is flue oversizing: most fireplace flues are WAY too big to vent the exhaust coming out of the 6" or 8" flue collars on today's inserts. Installing the liner eliminates flue oversizing violation, ensures the best possible insert performance, and eliminates the need to pull the insert out of the fireplace every time you clean the chimney. The job doesn't really require much mechanical aptitude, and many of our online customers choose to do it themselves.
Thanks, I read pretty much what was on there. I was looking at the 6" stuff. Think it is time to sell the stupid insert. I have not measured the outlet of the fireplace to the chimney but it is pretty wide but not 8" deep. Looking at prefabbed transitions, about $130 just for rect to round with an extra boot to make up the larger outlet on the insert.
I've installed twenty to thirty inserts in my life and can't remember one with a round flue connection. They are made with rectangluar because the dampers they adapt to are also rectangular.
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If you're just connecting them to the damper frame and not installing a round liner from damper to chimney cap/crown, then yes, rectangular will be needed. Up here, we must reline from the insert flue collar to the top of the chimney, even if it means removing the damper and busting the damper frame to make room for the liner to fit through. So up here, all the inserts have round flue collars.
What you're referring to was done in the 80's-early 90's but may not be code in the US now. The 1991 edition of CSA-B365 (our wood heating appliance installation reference standard and part of the NBC) was the first in North America to require chimney relining for inserts.
But since his stove has the rectangular hole, his was nade back then. Ther is a way to adapt but too much work really. To use the adaptor to round, fit it around the damper seat and smoke shelf, then hook up, then fit a bisected plate around it all and seecure it. Full day's work at least. And dirty too. I've gone home black more than once...;)
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