howdy all,
i am redoing the stair area and railings on my stairs from the first to second floors, including the hallway on the second floor that opens onto the stairwell. in the course of opening the pictured area up (drywall was covering this area), i discovered that a previous hvac contractor had cutaway the main beam to insert a forced air duct. the duct is now inoperable, so i can easily cut this out, but what i’m worried about is the beam being cut, not to mention the shoddy piece of pine they put under the particle board subfloor. the beam is the main beam running down the center of the house with joists running perpendicular to the exterior walls. by the way, the floor on the second floor is plywood subfloor covered with particle board……not sure why they did this.
on either side where the beam was cut there are tripled 2xs to hold up the beam, my concern is that it might “twist”, “roll”, or deflect over the stairs, though i imagine the stringers/stair will help hold it in place at least on the high side. is there anything i can do/do i need to reinforce the beam? also, it is my intention to replace the pine chunk of board over the hvac duct with plywood, tear out the particle board subfloor, and replace with t&g hardwood.
great lime green shag carpet huh?
all help is appreciated,
john
Replies
Impossible to make any kind of structural analysis based on those pics. If you're seriously worried about the beam being cut, put a new one in. I can't see enough to know what that entails, but it seems likely you could probably put the new one below the old one. I hate to fall back on the old saw "hire an engineer", but it does seem applicable here - at the very least I'd have a reputable builder take a look at it and make a recommendation.
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That doesn't look like a main beam, it just looks like the box cut out that's sitting on top of the stairwell wall. You can see the joists running into the box where it's cut.
merlvern
I'm in agreement that for a complete and legal answer should that be important to you, you'll need to hire a structural engineer.
However if that were my place and solely based on the pictures I see, not what might be out of camera view I would remove the old duct and simply replace the wood cut away.
I don't think that you have a beam there.
It looks like a single piece of 2x lumber which is the rim joist or band joist for the floor joists .
It's functions is to allow nailing into the end of the joists and keep them vertical as well as to give a surface for wall finish to be applied. the wall below is what is taking the weight of the floor.
The cutout while ugly probably doesn't hurt a thing.
Here, where I am at least it is not uncommon for particle board to be overlaid on cdx ply to give a smooth surface for carpet of vinyl to be applied over.
Wow, I encountered exactly the same scenario last week, only in my case, the HVAC guys had hacked out for 2 runs, not just one. I wish I had taken pics. You wouldn't have believed how similar this looks.
You are lucky that the beam/band joist is still being supported by the wall framing. In my case, it was not!!
For my scenario, I determined that nearby framing in the room below the ducts had been carrying the load of the compromised joists for a good 20 years, so I left it alone without worrying too much. Just had to make a mental note that I had just found a new load bearing wall where I never would have expected one. Replacing the band joist and fooling around with all the other framing would have just caused more problems in the rest of the house.
In short, if it's been in that state for a long time without incident, you're probably okay to leave it assuming you have no plans for anything major apart from flooring. If it wanted to twist or roll, it would have done it already unless you're in an earthquake area.
It's my guess that any engineer that sees this will recommend replacement or sistering just to CYA.
its been....probably 25+ years like this....just kinda freaked me out you know.
thanks for all the input,
really helpful as usualjohn
I totally understand.
This is why minor renovations turn into major rebuilding projects. Every time I open up a wall in my own house I do so with the knowledge that I will probably be inclined to just rebuild the thing once I see the nightmares left behind by the hacks that built the upscale tract home I live in.
I just decided to rip out some old stringers and replace rather than shim my life away. The thing that really frosts me is that most of the stuff I have run into was just stupidity, not cost cutting.
If my own personal history is any guide, once it's all fixed I will sell the place and start all over again somewhere else. ;-)
I see no major problem here either, with one exception I can not tell if both floor joist are sitting on just the double top plate with on support underneath. In other words is there a stud directly under the floor joist or to the duct side of the stud bay so the joists are not just canter levered on the top plate. Looking at the last picture again it appears the right stud is close to if not right under the joist.
I would stuff some insulation around the duct in the top of the stud bay so you don't have a fire chase and work in some blocking between the joists the thickest I could so you have some thing solid to back the dry wall. I would replace the particle board with ply wood.
Wallyo
The only possible structural problem I see is the point loading on the floor below from the studs (posts) that carry the cut ends of the stair header. If those point loads are properly carried to ground (doubled joist underneath or posts to basement floor), then there should be no issue.
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