Hello all – I’m a sporadic participant in Breaktime – haven’t been here in a couple of years but have always been a huge fan of this community.
My question pertains to a circular staircase installed in my mother’s house 30 years ago – she’s asked me to help her ‘get it fixed’ and I’m at a loss. She’s described 2 basic problems: the stairs are more bouncy than they used to be; and there is obvious separation in the railing.
I’m not even certain there is a problem at all. I don’t notice a huge difference in ‘bounciness’ since the day they were installed. It’s entirely possible that we’re all just, well, fatter than we used to be and that’s causing the increased bouncing. These stairs get a LOT of use, including multiple grandkids simultaneously racing up and down the stairs – which was cute when they were 6 but less so now that they are college age guys who play on the offensive line. But actually I wonder whether or how the railing acts as a structural component and whether the increase in ‘gaps’ (see photos) is compromising its integrity and perhaps contributing to the bounciness. She also worries about safety – will this eventually fail catastrophically? I should note that the gaps in the railing were present (to a lesser degree) within the first year of installation.
Several years ago I addressed the same set of problems and discovered that the anchoring at the bottom had failed – we drilled and epoxied new anchors into the concrete floor and they are rock solid now, so this is not an issue. She has had a contractor in (who I completely trust and respect) who suggested adding a mid-span brace from the floor up to the riser to stiffen the structure. We all hate this idea for esthetic reasons but no one knows what else to do.
So in net:
1. Maybe the laminated railing has no structural importance and has just gradually ‘relaxed’ and can be ignored.
2. Maybe the bounce is within the ‘normal’ range and can be ignored (after admonishing the kids to stop horsing around)
3. Or maybe an ugly brace will put everyone’s mind at ease and I should just do it.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! Stan Foster, are you still out there?
Photos:
1. Full shot of staircase
2. Separation at top of railing
3. Miter joint opening at top of railing (opposite side)
4. Small gap where riser joins platform
Replies
help me see..........
Maybe I'm just lookin' at the picture wrong but is that not a curved staircase rather than a circulatr?
I think that's knitting picks. Or something like that.
Is the "bounce" up and down
Is the "bounce" up and down or sideways?
Yes it is more precisely a curved stair not circular. The bounce is vertical.
If it was side-to-side you could tighten the tread connections, but vertical is about 90% related to the stringers, which I gather are laminated wood with no open joints.
If this were mine, I'd be concerned. Not that I'd go slapping yellow caution tape on it, but I'd want to be sure the stair system is well secured and stable. The photo showing the curved stringer pulling the upper riser/support is of most concern to me. Possibly you did all that was necessary when you secured the bottom to the floor. Had all this gapping already occurred then, or is it more recent?
At a minimum, I'd remove the ceiling cover under the upper landing and examine the connections. Beefing these up might be quite a good idea. It may not remove any bounce, but I suspect that the bounce has caused these joint failures. There's no reason to think the damaging effects have lessened or stopped. In other words, I think your problems will get worse, not better.
I doubt that the handrail is having any real effect. Its method of construction will not appreciably decrease bounce nor keep the thing from total failure. Its possible that when new, the railing offered a modicum of support, but that has eroded with time.
Look in your area for a contractor or woodworker who has experience with this type of staircase. Especially look for one with an aesthetic eye. He/she can likely offer a solution that will both strengthen the stairs and be visually complementary.
Thanks for the reply - the gapping where the riser meets the platform had definitely occured before I fixed the problem with the base and hasn't budged since. I'm very interested in the notion that the platform has sagged or is poorly secured and will check that asap.
I agree that the railing probably has no structural contribution - after thinking about it the only way it could is if the spindles were glued top and bottom but they're not - some spin freely.
I appreciate your insights ... Bill.
Test it
The hand rails are most probably lnot load bearing. I can't really tell with out being there to look.
It looks to me like the top attachment point is flexing. Which is transfering enough load up to the hand rail to be tearing it apart.
Get situated so you can see the header connection, and have the "boys" walk up the stairs, and see what if any thing moves.
Yeah, if you could tighten up the top attachment, that would stiffen things up a fair amount. There is an enormous amount of stress on that joint, though, so it will take some thought/study to figure out how to make it securely tight.