Need some help…I’m an architect/builder and I have designed cedar shingle siding with a flair at the bottom edge. I’ve seen details on framing using plywood flairs and strips of furring run horiz. Two main questions 1) I’m worried that standing snow will cause leaks. I would be more comfortable with solid sheathing with ice-guard…but how do you bend plywood? 2) Then how do you bend the shingles? Soak in water or do you need to steam?
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I have flared shingles with furring a few times. After installing the furring I would push the shingle in and staple it home (stainless of course). The furring was laid out to match nailing location of shingles. Between the bend in the shingle and the natural coursing of 18" or 24" material we achieved natural curves. We used ice and water shield on the verticle sheathing and flashings to direct water to beyond flare.
If bent sheathing is necessary I have found 3/8" sheathing that is bendable one direction only (all laminations are facing one way). It can be bent to radius' as tight as 18". I don't believe it would pass 7/16" shear requirement. The shingles are probably only going to touch at the tope and bottom but the look will be a consistent curve.
Hope this helps
Edited 4/18/2005 1:17 pm ET by otbbaby
Edited 4/18/2005 1:18 pm ET by otbbaby
to add to good input from Adam
the sheathing covered w/ ice & watershiel then furring also provides for the cedar to breathe( and move ) where plywood doesn't as much
in a delicate environment w/ "left over" 8" bevel I worked in a 3 layer bottom course of the bevel then 2 courses of cedar over that
bending cedar - here in PNW I have enviable situation of buying green shingles directly from mill when they are most pliable
if not possible soaking or steaming way to go
as the demand to bend lessens get back to backpriming and backstaining
wet or green get them edge to edge as tight as you can
once when situation dictated I ran the shigles through my planer and they bent beautifully
Thanks John & eric......I want to run down the wall and flair about 1 foot, gradually, the pictures eric provided shows much less. The reason for the diemension is pictures and designs I've seen of Hampton designs....do you think I can achieve this detail? How do you handle the angle of an outside corder?
Tom
TC, for that much flare, just think of it as a really steep roof you're attaching to the side of the house.
Make a "rafter" pattern from 3/4" plywood that has the curve you want.
Attach the rafters to the house sidewall (already sheathed). Alternatively, you could sister curved "rafters" to the studs before the wall is sheathed.
Run a "soffit" board along the bottom of the new "rafters".
Sheathe with two layers of 1/4" ply or, if the curve is severe, use bendyboard, aka wackywood. Your lumberyard or hardwood/plywood supplier will know how to get it. For most curves the 1/4" ply, grain run horizontally, should work fine.
Mike
I usually cut approximate angle with a skill saw and finish with a hand plane. I have also held each piece in place, marked with a pencil and then cut. Technique depends on whether I am working from a ladder or scaffolding.Adam Greisz<!----><!---->
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Thanks to everyone....What about the shingles? Will soaking them in water do?
Will soaking them in water do?
Probably--give it a try. If it doesn't work, a steambox isn't hard to make.
Mike
Hey TC,
You want to flare out one foot, but over how many feet of rise? Also, are you going to radius your backing, or just do a straight bevel up to the wall, and then go plumb? If you do the latter, most of the bending difficulty is in a few courses where the flare transitions to plumb.
On my house I poured the stemwall with a 3-1/2" brick ledge outboard of the mudsill and sheathing. I installed the mudsill and sheathing in the usual way so that I'd get shear and hold-down. I then ran a second 2x4 mudsill on top of the brick ledge, and ripped tapered 2x4 furring and attached it vertically onto the sheathing at 24" OC, then 1/2" plywood over that. Then felt, then shingles.
Overall the flare went 4" in 24" and it was relatively easy to get the shingles to bend. They were wet #1 16" sawn WRC.
I've got a sketch I could post, or some photos. I will say... it's a major amount of work compared to a straight corner. Maybe 2-3x as much work, not including the backing. Ugh.
Thanks to all again...David: the flair will be 12" Horz. and 24" vert. I think the way this is developing I'll sister the stud wall with 3/4" plywood curves, then see about that bend board that was talked about ( we have a good plywood source in Toledo) then ice guard it.....then soak the shingles in water...still worried about bending the shingles, I've worked with white cedar shingles before, really rigid from top to bottom.
Tom
I'm guessing you will have to steam-bend the shingles prior to installing them. If I were bidding it that's what I would assume. WRC shingles will bend, but not that much and there will be a lot of splitting, breaking, and staples going thru if you don't have them pre-shaped. I installed some shingles that someone else bent not that long ago. I think if I were you, I'd set up in the garage for a couple of days with a steam box and a couple of sets of cauls and make shingles.
The plywood in question might be what is called 'wiggle wood'. It's a luaun plywood with all of the plys in the same orientation, 8x4. It has a funny smell, and is mostly used for fabricating curved store fixtures, reception desks, etc., stuff that gets p-lam on it. A decent sheet-goods distributor should have it. I think instead of using it outdoors I would run horizontal 1x2 or 1x3 nailers over your flared framing.
Wow..that is a very aggresive flare...
You will have issues with the bending of the shingles. I did about 6" in 24" or so. I used WRC that were supplied by Michigan Prestain (Man is THAT a great way to go!), and I soaked them in a compound bucket filled with water. One or two buckets of shingle was enough...it is slow going at the corners!
My tecnique was to overlay cleats, or stringers onto the sheathing that I ripped on a table saw to the approx angle I needed. I built a mock up corner to explore the best balance of design and ease of construction and cost, as well as resolve the window and door detail issues. Interestingly, adding just an inch more flare would have added a significant amount to the job dollar wise, as I wouldn't havebeen able to utilize the lumber for the cleats as efficiently. Under my flare I installed copper flashing, leaving a gap between the flashing and the bottom edge of the lowest shingle. I used that fuzzy roof peak vent stuff in the gap as a bug/debris screen.
A few design considerations: Think about how you will handle the openings in the flare for doors and such, and if you use tall windows, such as cottage style units, you may have to resolve issues of the shingels projecting out further than the window trim pieces if the flare hasn't flattened when it intersects the window bottom... just a few things to think about.....
I have a series of pictures of the process and the details that I will post tomorrow if anyone wants to see..Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
Oh yea....that plywood...I used some once. My supplier callsed it "wacky wood" or something equally silly, but the price sure wasn't! it wasn't cheap!Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
This might help.............I rebuilt this flair after 75 years or so, it was built with nothing but paper behind and never leaked.
Not that I would recommend that.
Bottom of first course rested on a small crown over a frieze above the last course of bevel siding, horizontal nailer about 4 to 6"above that.
First course doubled up, lots of pushing, sometimes one guy pushing, one nailing pre-stained shingles. A little tricky, next course I believe nailed to the sheathing, I'd say the flair was around 2". I also believe that the shingles don't curve as much as you think they may, but create that illusion when done.
Eric
I Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
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