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I just had to flame about guys out there undercutting all the real carpenter outfits out there. You know them. No insurance, piece of crap truck with no name, no knowledge, rip off customers and give us a bad rep.. Most of these punks have full time jobs too. Mostly gravy shift work jobs from the government, like fireman and police. How can you compete with a guy who has no overhead and gets full bennys from the taxpayers? Whenever I see these guys I want to sink my est-wing in their heads! We need to devolope and demand a national licencing system. We have to get these hacks out of the business. It’s your money their taking, not to mention their fat cop check and free donuts. Bastards! Alll of em! Any ideas of how to get rid of them? I’m for killing them all.
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Problem is that it's the homeowners keeping the fly-by-nighters in business. They are looking for the cheap job and bitch about it when they get what they paid for. No licenses are gonna solve this. Maybe they should fine those who use unlicensed contractors. How about a state basic license to operate with which guarantees you are insured and have WC and such. Then you could get the additional licenses in cities where you have to work later.
Pete Draganic
*Pete, I agree with you completly,I run into the fly-by-nighters all the time here in central NY.There's not much I can do about them on my own, customers have to be more involved in this.Vince
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if you think cops and fireman make that much go do that and do the business thing on the side. public servants are not that highly paid for the risk they take. sure there are bad cops just as there are bad carpenters. but don't group all cops together as you would not want me to group all contractors together. yes, fly by nights do hurt the legitimate thing and it does suck for those that at are but reputation will eventually follow you around. the problem is that those who have the proper creditials are the ones that also do sucky jobs too. so i don't know how to solve the problem but don't rail on everyone else.
*
Here in Washington State contractors are required to have a performance bond and to carry liability insurance to be licensed. A customer has the right to hire anyone they want to work on their building. But if they want to be protected by a bond and insurance, they have to hire a pro. That pretty much levels the playing field.
I'm not tryin' to compete with anyone. I'm just tryin' to do the best job I can and feed my family. If and when I'm not worth what I charge, that frikkin' phone will stop ringin'. - jb
*I think I hold the desenting opinion on this. A home owner is and should be able to hire whoever they want. If Mr. homeowner wants to hire a high school kid to build a room addition after school, they should have the right. I don't feel that I compete with the fly-by-nighters. They hit a market that I really don't want anything to do with. They weed out the price shoppers for me.To complain about these guys is sort of like Lexus stating that those Kia guys shouldn't be able to sell cars because they do it cheaper and offer lower quality.I believe in capitalism. Let everyone try to sell their wares and let's keep the government out of it.No one needs to protect homeowners, if they hire cheap and get cheap work, so be it.
*Being a fiercely independent and allegedly free American I agree with Ryan Cruzan. Since Oregon enforces strict, restrictive, laws concerning contractor licensing, I'm benefiting financially from the fact that many people don't have the wherewithal to do contract work here. I don't really relate to wanting to bash someone's head in with a hammer because they are incompetant and cheap. Thieves and liars are another story. Has anyone seen one of those brand new Ruger 454 Casulls? Joe
*
I agree with Ryan,these people who hire fly by nighters
are really doing us a favor.Do you really want to waste your time doing an estimate,writing specs,and all that goes with
it for a coustomer who is comparing you to a fly by nighter.
The coustomer really only wants your quote to make themselves feel good about what a great price they are getting, dont waste your time.If you got the job they
would be the ones watching your every move waiting for
some kind of reason to prove to you why you are a crook.
Who needs them.
*
arlen, that all sounds great except most people I give estimates to don't tell me in advance that joe jerk will be there tomorrow to under bid me. I want to work for every customer that I go to see. I do this full time year round.And if I didn't want to work for everyone how could I stay in business.I see alot of guys here at BT saying the same thing about picking and choseing customers, it must be a nice luxury to be able to that.Vince
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Ok ok. I really wouldn't bash anybodys head in with my est-wing...maybe shoot out a tire with my Pasload. I somewhat agree with flybyers taking away jobs you wouldn't want anyway, but like Vince said you don't know it when you make your bid. Thats a lot of time lost working up estimates to be used as a yard stick. Time which could be spent making money. Do you think plumbers and electricians have to deal with flybys? Hell no! Thats why they charge 60 bucks an hour and get away with it. By the way Fireman and cops make good money in Philly where I'm from. Carpenters have pretty risky jobs too. I don't do cop work and take away money from them, they shouldn't be in our business either. You need the proper credentials to be a cop, it should be the same to be in business as a builder. It sure sounds like a lot of guys post here in BT that are not who they say they are.
*Joey, If you really want to get 'em, find out their names and report them to the IRS! Also the state licence board. I think each state has a limit as to the amount of work you can do without a license, such as $1000. Go over that and you can't legally collect. Sure, for a while, not having insurance and all that saves money in the sort run but wait until somebody falls off a ladder.
*
Well I guess Ryan has the right idea. There is and always will be a market for all kinds of workers. There is and always will be different sized pocketbooks. It seems the two will have a way to get together.
Since, almost everywhere I know a homeowner can do all their own work or hire assistance at will government intrusion will merely drive up costs, further restrict freedom and in the end achieve very little.
As I have continually posted education is the answer. Too often contractors try to keep what they do a secret from the customer. In today's age of paranoia and collossal rip-offs that is a mistake. Instead educate the customer. Let them know exactly what you are doing and the skill level to do it. Give them an insight into the business. Get along as well with the customer as you do with your tools. Do this and you might be surprised at how much business comes your way and how your and other's profits will climb.
Or, put another way: No one owes you a living. The world is not fair but it does have rules. To be successful you must follow the rules. One that applies is that you must convince the person with the checkbook that what you do and how you do it is worth what you charge. Most of the folks that gripe about competition haven't done that and want someone else to buy their groceries.
*"This is the true joy in life: being used for a purpose recognized by yourself as a mighty one, and being a force of nature instead of a feverish little clod of ailments and grievances, complaining that the world will not devote itself to making you happy." GEORGE BERNARD SHAWIn other words: get over it!Jerry
*In Florida, a home-owner can be fined up to $5000 for hiring an unlicensed contractor, even if it's to build a doghouse.
*Mark Cadioli in Australia was telling me about how things are done down under. You gotta have a licence to build anything, and there is a six year warranty for all trades. I'll let Mark tell you more about it, but it sounds to me that the riff-raff can't even get a foot hold down under.I yield the floor to Mr. Cadioli.Ed. Williams
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Just down the road from me in sunny Florida this past year, in Orange Park, the cops threw a party for "contractors" and put a bunch in jail. The "sting" advertised for bids on a remodel job and just as fast as these guys went in the front door to ply their trade they were carted out the back door in cuffs. All because they were unlicensed contractors. So, how many of you guys shake in your boots when you answer a call from a potential customer? Yes, I know I get underbid by flybys but I also get underbid by real hungry licensed contractors.
Ralph
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Click here
*Vince:Sorry but that's business. We all get our time wasted once in a while. We knew this when we went out on our own, we can't complain about it now.There is no way to stop this but you can do less time wasting by 1) Doing such a great job that your customers sell you to their friends. Eventually you won't have to go see anyone that doesn't want you. 2) Ask the right questions on the phone and don't go see the wrong people (It is hard to tell sometimes)3) Work on your sales skills and teach the customer why they want you instead of Mr. Fly-by-night. I realized about a year ago that my weak area was sales. I've been working on that.
*The reality of the situation Is that it will always be easy to enter into our business,but difficult to stay in our business.I am sure that many of you,perhaps most of you,started out like I did.....A rusted out truck,a ladder,a toolbelt and a wife to answer the phone.You earned a marginal existence living from job to job.At the time,many of the established guys could have called you a fly by nighter.Now.however it is 10,20,even 30 years later and you have reached a level of respectability and earned enough sheckels that you can't believe you find yourself complaining about fly by night hacks undercutting you.Don't you see a little of yourself in these "wood butchers"? A lot of them will fail,but some will end up in your shoes.Personally, I don't understand wanting to work for every potential customer I meet.I would say 30-40% of the time when I pull in the driveway I know before I even meet the customer weather I want the job or not.I would much rather do less work,at a much higher price,than wear myself to a frazzle trying to win every bid.I have stopped worrying about losing a job to an underbidder,after all if they want to work that cheap....let 'em.What I worry about is the guys who OVERBID me,and still got the job.That tells me that I still have room to improve,somewhere,somehow.Regaurding the Firemen.....I have worked on several firemens personal homes,and have even done some work for a fireman who contracts on the side( I subbed on a couple of his projects). They were all stand up guys,and I was proud to have been involved with them.But way back in the back of my mind I still can't help thinking"wouldn't THEY be pissed if I started STEVE'S FIRE DEPARTMENT and went around putting out fires on the side.....Good Luck,Stephen
*A few years ago I was talkin' with an older contractor, sayin' that I knew I was pricing jobs too low because I was getting hired every time. He said that he thought you should get about 1/3 of the jobs you bid. That seems excessive to me, but I agree that if you are getting every job you look at, you are pricing your work too cheap.
*Hello all, sorry I've been gone for a while....lots of travelling.' Joey....All due respect, but, these anger issues..., (something is bugging you and you should sort it out, and I don't mean flybys). I would respectfully suggest looking at what you are doing rather than what other...less successful...unfortunate souls are up to. Young Bob....I would like to nominate you for FH: Award for Contractor with the healthiest attitude towards business, I am envious. Consistantly the undertone to his posts include a healthy dose of humility...*I could be wrong but...*, and usually points out both sides of each and every coin. Glad to know you Jim. Flybys either learn...or perish. It is entirely dictated by ability and intellect. Personally I don't jerk anyone over, I really believe that kind of thing comes back to haunt you in one way or another. Face it, if you spend 2 hours a day upset about and or plotting the demise of someone else...You have lost 2 hours of productive time, 10 hours a week, 1 week per month to what??? Get my point? You will lose in the end. (Ohh....but I could be totally wrong...cheers Jim)L
*JB:My experience is 20-25% of bids result in work. That's after I weed out some on the phone. I don't have any idea what is considered to be the right number but 33% seems high.You know, I think I'll start a new thread on this.
*
To Joey H . I was a N.Y.C. police officer for about ten years and also a contractor . I worked the construction business part time ( days off and vacations ) I was licensed and insured , and had a good clientele . About five years ago , while patrolling the streets of East Harlem (A place you propably would never go , even with your est wing ) a bad guy put a bullet through my right knee . After 3 operations and spending a year learning how to walk again , I was retired by the department . I was happy to have a second carreer waiting for me . Now I work full time in this business . I do not advertize, have an unlisted phone number , and get my jobs only by reputation and refrences . Excellent work , at fair price, by people they trust is all the customer wants . Joey , if you are not happy with your current occupation , the N.Y.C.P.D. is looking for a few good men . Call 212recurit . They have that greast salary , benefits , and job security your looking for. And Joey even carpenters eat donuts.
*come a carpenter job as risky as a cop or fireman give me a break. how many times have you been shot at or swung at. if you think cops have it so good the news reported that cities were having a hard time feeling the jobs. go sign up and do yours on the side too.
*
Actually,I would bet you a dozen donuts that construction work as a whole is statistically as dangerous as police and fire work.Not just on the job injuries,but actual fatalities.Our work just isn't percieved by the general public as particularly dangerous because the injuries are generally accidents or plain negligence and the public knows that the buildings we work on aren't generally on fire at the time and we generally don't have to worry about some A-hole pulling a gun on us.In my area I think I can remember more guys killed in trench collapses in the last few years than police and fire deaths. If anybody knows of any actuall statistics on any of this I would like to hear it.
Stephen
*wow.
*Well I used to work in occupational safety and health for some of the building trades unions, and I can tell you that only agriculture is more dangerous in terms of injuries and most construction injuries are "struck by" injuries. Part of the statistics question is where is the timber industry classified, which is very dangerous. As for fatalities, I don't remember.And "confined spaces" are one of the most dangerous places to work.But also remember that injuries are relatively well reported, while workplace illness is badly under-reported. So don't forget to include carpal tunnel syndrom and arthritic knees on the OSHA 101 forms.
*.... wading into the fray.... for what it's worth, statistically construction workers get killed at a higher rate than cops (other than perhaps, East harlem cops), my sources say we rate third, behind miners and farmers. So be careful out there guys. Well said about the wanna-be's maybe someday getting somewhere, I'm sure most of us started out something like that, but I wish some of these guys would do a decent apprenticeship first. Requiring carpenters to be licensed, like plumbers and electricians, would be a good idea. Any greater government interference than that, though, and we'll all just end up with more paperwork and expenses while the underground economy will continue to flourish. There's a place for the low-cost hacks, some people value money more than quality, and they should have the right to hire anyone they want. What bugs me even more is the guys in fancy trucks charging big bucks who don't know sh*t! So all we can do is take care of our own stuff, don't worry so much about the other guy. These days, around here anyways, I can finally pick and choose my jobs, so if the hacks pick up a few jobs to supplement their welfare cheques, big deal, I'll survive. Market yourself well, charge what your financial statements and forecasts tell you is the right price to charge, and ignore the competition, there's enough customers for everyone..... if we eliminate the under-the-table cash deal boys! hey, did I just come full circle back to the beginning? Hand me that Estwing, Joey!
*All professions are conspiracies against the laity.-George Bernard Shaw
*In PA there was talk of licenses.The problem I saw was this would be a license that you simply purchased! Anyone with the money could get one!What purpose does this serve(aside from generating state/local gov. money)?If there were a system where testing was involved I may be more inclined to get involved as this would truely seperate those with construction knowledge from anyone with a hammer.As a marketing tool I would use it.I agree the fly by nites mostly prey on customers I don't want anyway. It's never good when somebody gets poor workmanship, but they get what they pay for.(Keep in mind a professional scam artist is an entirely different matter!)I never wanted to be the lowest bidder.When someone says they can get it done cheaper, I reply...I certainly hope the less skilled are charging less!I have to charge more 'cause I was planning on doing it right the first time.
*Ryan,I agree with all your points.I don't do any advertizing at all. But I still do estimates even for people who have called me and want me to do their work. Your post the other day talked of picking and chosing customers and that I don't do.I feel everyone is entitled to the best job possible so I try to make myself available.(kidding)I've been a carpenter for 30 years and on my own for the last 12.I've met alot of nice people along the way and a fair share of idiots. Yes, you have to help customers along to see what they need and don't need and I don't have any problems not getting jobs.(There's not enough time in the day to do the work we have now.) but the fact remains that the're people out there that can't do the work we do and yet get paid for it and give all of us a bad name.Can we do any thing about it, I doubt that we can. But it's a nice thought.Vince
*There is not license in NJ. The state dept of banking does offer a license to offer financing. Some contractors get this license (costs $600 I think) and then paint "licensed contractor" on the side of thier truck. Even the licensed ones can be misleading.Actually, a licensing system would be great for me. If contractors had to have 5 years experience and pass a test, eventually, we would be able to charge the same rates as electricians and plumbers.
*So, it would be fair to say that your an unlicensed home improvement & remodeling contractor in southern New Jersey, that you didn't pay the $600.00. Now this explains your position.
*I don't think thats fair Jack and not to nice. Vince
*Well isn't that just to bad, life is unfair just like this thread. Seems my post is very accurate.
*I suppose it isn't the low bidding uninsured, unlicensed contractor's out there that bug me, it's the ones who butcher the living shit out of a job or pull the bait and switch on folks and stuff of the sort. It bothers me to see so many guys out there conning their way through and screwing the customer giving the good of us a bad rap. I think that most of the guys complaining here would agree that this is a more accurate description of what frustrates them.Honestly, I have been underbid a few times at prices that I thought were unbelievably low but when I returned to see what was given on these few occassions I was amazed that a fantastic job had been done. Now mind you, this was only a few of the cases. These are the guys that I saw as being like me when I began. Most other times the jobs are hacked to shreds at a savings to the customer of probably under 5%. For this I tend to blame the customer. Although I suppose most customers have little experience in shopping for a contractor and perhaps that also lends to their poor selections but cheapness is the primary reason I suspect.Pete Draganic
*Jack,maybe I wasn't clear. There is no contractor's license in NJ. We are all unlicensed here. There is no law requiring a license and no place to get one if I wanted too. The license I mentioned was similar to a license a mortgate loan officer would get. It's not in any way a license to build. I suppose a contractor with a valid drivers license could also paint "licensed contractor" on his truck and this would be no more misleading.However, although I realize that a licensing system would help me in the long run (less competition), I am opposed to the government protecting us from ourselves. Let the buyer beware. If someone is stupid enough to hire someone unqualified to build a house and it falls on them and kills them, this is just God taking out the garbage. Less Religious types would call it Darwinism.
*Hello Everybody, I've got a little different perspective on all of this.I really don't care if hacks are out there or not. Time takes care of them. Reputation, integrity, and quality work are what keeps all of us in business. Hacks just don't have what it takes to survive and grow.When I first started out on my own, I did what was necessary to compete, and get whatever jobs I could get. I needed to build my reputation, and my portfolio. I took jobs a small as hanging ceiling fans, to the really crappy jobs of tearing down old dilapidated sheds and hauling off the debris. Point is, I worked long, and hard to build my reputation. Once I built it, I live off of it. It gets me quality work, and lots of it. I learned, and I survived.I still take small jobs. I'll drive 20 miles to hang a ceiling fan, and most times it gets my foot in the door. Whenever the client finds out all the things I do, they start adding repairs and jobs to the list. Pretty soon, I have a couple of weeks worth of work. Many contractors tell the client that they aren't interested in the small jobs. Many, many times those small jobs have turned into major remodeling jobs, and have built me a customer for life.I have watched many competitors come and go. Most are total idiots, and it soon starts to show. They are incompetent, and have no business sense. This sinks them pretty quick.They also take jobs I am leary of. You know the ones, the client who has a #2 grade 1 x 4, (unpainted and full of nail holes) for door and window casing. They wouldn't un-ass a dollar if their life depended on it. Some have surprised me, and were willing to spend a lot of money to get it right. Some are right on target, and tell you how overpriced they think I am. What it all boils down to is "are you confident enough in your business and your abilities to just ignore the hacks"?If you are, they shouldn't bother you a bit. I quit losing sleep over them a long time ago.Another thing, someone (Jim, I think) mentioned the percentage of the bids that you win having to do with low pricing. In many cases where I submit a bid, I have no competition. I am the only bidder. In those cases, I get about 98% of the bids. The other two percent just can't afford the work at that time, but many have called me back a few months later and told me to come on back. I guess it depends on type of work, and competitors. Just my thoughts...James DuHamel
*I think you are on to something there Pete.American consumers have been conditioned by McDonalds and Walmart to value cheap price over EVRYTHING.Americans will purchase anything regaurdless of the catestrophic consequences to their health ,or, completely ignoring the moral and ethical rape of the sweatshop laborers who produced it.If it is cheap enough,they will buy it.
*
As one of those "Fly by nighters" as you call us. Actually I'm getting ready to open my own buisness this next year. I recently recieved a phone call from a lady that wanted me to come out and FIX what a so-called "PROFESSIONAL" contractor couldn't get right. All the lady wanted was a 60" bathroom vanity put on a 10' wall with room on one side for a linen closet. What the "PROFESSIONAL" did was rather then offset the vanity to the left side of the wall alowing enough room for a closet he centered it, put up a stub wall for the side of the linen closet that wouldn't even come out far enough to cover the side of the vanity let alone the vanity top. The "PROFESSIONAL" had only allowed enough space out of this 10' wall for a 20" x 19" linen closet, when there should have been a 24" x 36" closet with room to spare. So although we usually don't charge as much and don't have the time always to take on the BIG jobs, we are not in such a hurry that we don't do things right (the way the customer wants it done). There is a place for small, part-timers that a full time contractor wouldn't waste his valuable time on.
*
Barewoods,
I agree that there is a nitch market for "handyman services", and if the prices are high enough, these can be profitable.
I disagree with you when you say that you can charge less and still take more time than the big boys to do the job right.
Having been where you are, I think you will soon find that you either have to be cheap or be good.
You can't afford to take the time to do custom work and still charge for a quick job. If you're experience on your own is anything like mine, you will be raising you prices within a month of striking out on your own. Then you will still not be making enough and you will raise them again. And again. Eventually you will just accept the reality that it costs alot of money to get a good job and you won't be afraid to charge what it costs.
Good luck.
*Obviously, my naive friend, that guy was the fly-by-night hack were complaining about. HE WAS NOT A "PROFESSIONAL". You were the one that tagged yourself as a fly-by-night. Perhaps you're just a little confused?Pete Draganic
*RyanAfter rereading your post, it appears quite clear to me. NJ does have a licensing program and it costs $600.00. The remainder of your first post and the rest of your additional post just go on about your opinion of this program. Your statements are an attempt to ratify your beliefs why you should not participate. It's also clear that the sole reason for non participation in the program is the $600.00 cost. It may as well also be the additional cost of putting the words licensed contractor on you truck.Jack.
*...good idea. We could use more professional oriented threads here.
*James - what I meant was, if you get virtually every job you bid, you might be underpricing yourself. So the problem with that is, say a job comes along that you really want, you can't take it because you are too backed up with work that you bid at a rate that is below fair value. I didn't mean it as a criticism, just a way of getting more efficient. If you are the only one bidding a job, that's different. I think my pencil might get dull though, if I didn't get involved in some type of competitive situation once a year or so. In fact, I think mine already has.
*Hello Jim, I didn't take it as criticism at all. When I first started out on my own, a lot of old timers would tell me that if I was getting most of the jobs I was bidding on, I was pricing myself way too low. Well, a lot of the times, I WAS getting most of the jobs. I got a little nervous, and started raising my prices. I was STILL getting almost all the jobs, so I raised my prices again. Same cycle over and over until I priced myself way too high. I started asking people what made them choose me over the other bidders. They all started telling me "there ain't no other bidders. Your it". I soon put my pricing back into a reasonable mode, and have been content every since.James DuHamel
*You're right, NJ has several licensing programs. You're right, I'm wrong. In fact, I actually have several licenses. I have a drivers license, a boiler operators license, a pesticide applicator's license, a handgun license, a hunting license, a marrage license, and a license to purchase class C explosives. I do not however have a contractor's license as there is no such thing in NJ!!!!
*Let me guess...Jack paid the $600???
*Ryan,Shame on you! I'm sure that the New Jersey Department ofi Bankingknows all about the home improvement & remodeling business. I can't understand why every state doesn't use the Department ofi Bankingto regulate us miscreants.I have a thought on what to do with that class C explosive.....Maybe not.Rich Beckman
*Ryan,Oh, I see. Your licensed for just about everything in the state of NJ except what you make your living at. Do you ever do any work in NYC? If you do your braking the law. So, do you carry Insurances like, liability and workmens compensation? Do you file local, state and federal income taxes? Do you charge and collect sales tax on all taxable services you perform? Do you have an EIN? Or, do you simply view all of the above as more government intervention in you pursuit of the american dream?Jack.
*Let me guess...Jack paid the $600???
*
Jack I'm from NJ too. No licence needed here. No licencing system at all. Thats the problem. Ryans right your confused buddy. Sorry but I have to go. I still swing a hammer for a living.
*
Work in NYC: no, don't even like to visit.
L&W/C Insurance: yes
File taxes: yes
collect and remit sales tax: yes
EIN: yes
This line of questioning has gotten tiring. Uncle.
*
So what can you do, whip everybody that makes an extra buck with hammer and nail? So some are good and some are bad? Many woodworkers and carvers that I know of are also doctors and lawyers, does this make their doctoring or their ability to defend or prosecute bad too? Why not do your own job to the best of your ability and get on with life, and if you mind your own business, you won't be minding mine.
*
Hey,
You wanna be a contractor in Dallas, Texas?
You get the form.....send in your $175.00 along with the completed form to the City of Dallas.....and your're in business.........no lie.
Ed. Williams
*Tell you what, Ed, here in Nova Scotia, you just call yourself a contractor, and you're a contractor. No licensing, no financial requirements unless you are part of a new home warranty program (completely optional). There are restrictions on what you can call yourself ('licensed' carpenter, or whatever), but those are trade qualifications, not a business description. Cape Breton has to be the home planet for the fly by nighters, with moonlighting miners, steelworkers, and union guys, all going for $100 a day under the table. There's another group, good guys that know their trade and do it right,but it's hard going cause the client base is so used to being able to get cheap labour because the economy is so bad here. The only solution I see, and it's a long term one, is professionalisation of the industry (new home and remodeling), and client education. I'm seeing some steps here towards the first.
*OK---------licensing. Massachusetts has had it since 1985, maybe a little before that. Ri has required all contractors to be licensed since 1990. Both started out just about like you said, send 'em some money and you got a license.Now, in Mass, you have to take a test and the license is pretty valuable, but doesn't cost much. I'm licensed in Mass, but never had to use it so someone from the great Commonwealth can tell you more about it.RHODE ISLAND: $60 bucks and proof of Liability Insurance, pretty easy , right ? You'd be surprised how that changed the playing field and the perception of the public in just 5-6 years.The second important thing in RI was finally changing the Workmen's Comp laws so any one with even ONE employee had to have Comp. and they have to register with the Contractors Board as an employer, and show proof of Comp Insurance as part of their license. One man bands still don't have to have Comp. but if they are incorporated they can insure every one. That's really made a huge difference in how things get done. The legislature wouldn't change the Comp laws for years (you didn't need Comp unless you had 3 or more employees), so the majority of workers in RI were not protected by Comp. They thought that Small Business was going to get screwed. Of course it just meant that if you were a small business and you wanted Comp to protect your employees, you couldn't compete against anyone who was uninsured.Bottom line, Licensing starts out slow, but it eventually grows some teeth, and you'll really have a hard time being a Pro until you have Licensing.b Keep your powder dry and don't ruffle your feathers. and lets be careful out there.
*In NJ, every employee must be covered by comp and there is no license.I just heard a new NJ state advertisement on the radio for the first time today. It was one of those "watch out for telemarketers, don't trust used car salesmen, contractors are crooks" ads. Our wonderful governor said to only hire licensed contractors. As you may have heard, NJ DOESN'T EVEN LICENSE CONTRACTORS. I would hope that the Governor knew this.
*To add to the argument, No, NJ has no licence. I am an Un-licenced NJ contractor, and proud of it. However I am insured and regester with NJ and US so I can pay taxes , OH BOY.
*
I just had to flame about guys out there undercutting all the real carpenter outfits out there. You know them. No insurance, piece of crap truck with no name, no knowledge, rip off customers and give us a bad rep.. Most of these punks have full time jobs too. Mostly gravy shift work jobs from the government, like fireman and police. How can you compete with a guy who has no overhead and gets full bennys from the taxpayers? Whenever I see these guys I want to sink my est-wing in their heads! We need to devolope and demand a national licencing system. We have to get these hacks out of the business. It's your money their taking, not to mention their fat cop check and free donuts. Bastards! Alll of em! Any ideas of how to get rid of them? I'm for killing them all.