This is not addressed to anyone in particular but it seems that the more I read the site…
a) the more I like it – even though I know next to nothing about your trade (yes, I know…I may not even belong here!)
b) the more I seem to see guys complain about customers/potential customers that tell the contractor they could “do it themselves, if only” or that “the guy at Home Depot told me…”. And the poster laments the diy’er attitude – even if the customer truly ISN’T a diy’er.
Can I say something as a time-starved guy? There are LOTS of people that just don’t want to deal with it!!! What do I mean “it”? I mean…
– changing their oil in the garage. Have you seen how many oil change shops there are these days? There are now even MOBILE oil change rigs that pull into parking lots to change oil for those lazy *sses (like me) that don’t want to spend 15 minutes sitting at an oil change shop.
– mopping their floor with a $2 mop. Now we use $6 swiffers (or at least our wives do) that take $3/each refills!
– the Lexus and Infiniti dealerships now bring a car to YOU (or your time-starved customer) to take a freaking test drive; let alone actually deliver the car to your office when you buy it.
– that same dealership will also pick you up from your office when you need service!
– the proliferation of lawn services, handyman services (it’s one of the fastest growing franchises around; our local one charges $450 for a half day of work…and they’re booming!), maid services, etc.
It’s all designed to save time. I’m sure you guys encounter your fair share of price sensitive folks. But, as Americans work more, commute longer and have more kids (which we as Americans are doing now) that play soccer, take karate lessons, etc. then I would think there are plenty of potential customers out there that would love the services of a trained professional.
I can only speak for myself. I’ve been working killer hours lately and a friend is building our house for us – and doing a great job. Every night I leave the office, too tired to even think about driving by the house to see the progress (more daylight during the weekend, right?), and I thank the good Lord that I hired this friend/pro. He’s worth every penny…and then some.
Best of luck guys,
Rob
Replies
Can I say something as a time-starved guy?
WARNING Rob,
Be careful with this site, if you are truly time starved this site can be hungrier and soon chew up more of your day than work. But as Ive seen, many here are happy with the result interdisciplinary activities can have, and are thrilled to hear from an expert in their own right.
-zen
You hit the nail on the head zen. For a while I found msyelf somewhat "addicted" to the site. But now I limit myself to no more than 15 minutes every other day or so. But since I've gained so much from the site I figured it's good to share a bit too...what little I have to offer.
Thanks,
Rob
Only 15 minutes.... every 2 days. Man thats strong willed.
Addiction would be good, Ive been told that Im obsessed and that I have 'a problem'.
"Hi Im zen and Im a Tauntaholic.", "Hi zen".
"addicted" to the site. But now I limit myself to no more than 15 minutes every other day or so.
The old "I'kn quit any time I wanna," eh . . . ? <g>
You said "site," too--going to knots, or haning out with the cooks or gardeners "counts" too, doncha know . . .
Besides, there's nothing wrong with a Breaktime addiction.
Other than the blodshot eyes, cramped fingers; the mischief one does waiting for things to u/l or d/l on dial-up . . . FLame wars; flame wars with trolls; flame wars about trolls . . . mole control; house wrap; vented and vented roofs . . . the wonderful utility of FG as insulation . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Around here, every dealership has courtesy vans to take you/pick you up from your home or office - a high-end dealership doesn't pick you up, they pick up your car and return it (or a loaner if yours isn't ready on time).
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
IMHO...people haven't really gotten any busier, they've just gotten more time inefficient. They do wasteful things for longer periods of time. They make me sick.
"Me time" is out of control. Sleep is me time, you don't need anymore than that..deal with it.
I could go on and on, but our forefathers got one heck of a lot more done in terms of building this country than anything my generation has done, but mine is the one that is "so busy ,I need to hire it done"
Gotta go to the gym to work out...GIVE ME A BREAK!
Starbucks for coffee???Are you a freakin' moron?
It is good for business, cause as they don't do it, they can't teach their kids to do it, so one of these days, they guy who knows how to "screw in a lightbulb will be the highest paid guy in the room"
People just don't want to do what they consider menial tasks....great, suck it up and do it yourself...morons.
This summer after a mild hail storm...the insurance claims started rolling in, then it was an all out epidemic...about 30% of a town of 80,000 got roofs and siding etc....I lost all faith in humanity...made liars and theives out of little old ladies...Keith
I can't disagree w/all your thoughts. I myself am not a big fan of driving 10 minutes out of my way to pay $5 for a cup of coffee at Starbucks. However I think more people are "specializing" in things these days. I know a guy who gets chastised by his Father for not cutting his lawn, shoveling his driveway or building a deck (he pays people to do it); yet this guy makes about $400k/year selling investments to people in face to face meetings. Obviously he's very good at what he does. So he thinks to himself "after working so darn hard during the day/week/weekend, why would I want to spend two hours cutting the grass when I could spend that time playing with my kids that I haven't seen lately?". It's tough to argue with the logic. At the same time it creates a strong marketplace for the service providers that can make that guy happy.
- Rob
"However I think more people are "specializing" in things these days. I know a guy who gets chastised by his Father for not cutting his lawn, shoveling his driveway or building a deck (he pays people to do it);"
We have become more and more specialized as a society as our professions have become more highly skilled. I grew up around the Renaissance men from the "Greatest Generation" who had a broad enough skillset to be far more self-sufficient. They grew up in the Depression, and had to take care of things themselves. I learned much from them, but few from my age cohort have broad skills of this sort.
DIY is a cost/benefit analysis. I try to think carefully about the highest and best use of my DIY time. Figure out your after tax hourly rate for your primary profession. Look at what pros get paid to perform the work in question, then decide whether your "part time" DIY job is worth doing. Include costs of tools, and costs of getting yourself trained up.
For example, I maintain and repair my own cars. I simply cannot make $80 an hour post-tax. Even if it takes me a bit longer than a pro, I come out way ahead because pros also charge full list price for parts. This 'hobby' certainly pays for my tool collection investment, and I acquired the skills long ago. Other particularly high value DIY projects are plumbing and electrical work, so long as my skills are up to it.
OTOH, I hire a service to clean my house. Relatively inexpensive, and not the highest and best use of my time or skills. I try to hire out lawnmowing to local kids, though few are interested in doing any manual labor these days (even at what amounts to $20-25 per hour!). Seems I keep getting kids who have never even mowed their own lawns. What's up with that?
I think the "specializing thing" is gonna be a downfall one of these days. We're not doctors, and for us, it's just someone trying to reap in more money by taking the lower skilled part of our job away, and passing it off. We all need that easy part. It gives us a break, let's our minds cool down and regroup is generally relaxing, so we can drive harder when the time call for it. I think everyone should have to do every job on a rotating basis. Cross train...eliminates boredom. Sometimes I want to be the one nailing off sheathing to.
Everone should have to clean up their own mess, period.
Clean your own toilet....it makes you a better shot.
Soon it will take a roomful of blonds to screw in a lightbulb...one only knows how to get a ladder, one knows where the new bulbs are, one can climb...etc. Keith
for a roomful of blonds I'll go buy the ladder.
Interesting logic. On the one hand, you're suggesting that everyone should clean up their own mess, yet you also state you're "not a doctor"...so, why not? Clean up your own mess. Why do you need some specialist to fix your health "mess"....fix yourself.
On the other hand, you could consider that everyone has a fixed amount of time available to them, and everyone has a different amount of income. It's up to the individual to decide if their time and money are better spent cleaning a toilet, or taking the kids to soccer, or cooking supper, or working, or playing piano, or visiting their mother, or surfing on Breaktime.
Just because someone has different priorities, you can't just put them down. I doubt that GWB cleans the toilets in the White House; by your logic, I guess he should.
I'm one of the few in my neighborhood who mows their own lawn; I enjoy it, but it's not always easy to fit it into my schedule. I don't feel superior to, or subservient to, the neighbors. They do what they want to do, and since one has 5 kids, I think I know what he used to spend his time doing. Come to think of it, maybe I should hire someone......
we got a new starbucks on the corner, you would not believe the yuppie that go there. BMW, mercedes, jags, tahoo. Its like raise the price 10 dollars and more will show up. they cause accident daily to get into the place,. The coffee cup from starbucks is a status symbol.
I have a hard time parking at my local auto parts since the opened the @%^@# Starbucks. Lot is filled with yuppiemobiles.
tastes burnt
Cairo,
the thought of GWB actually doing something usefull and benificial for society like the honest work of cleaning a toilet-------------that brings a smile!!!!!
But in the end---I suspect he would botch even that job----but still manage to blame it on those " godless liberals"
LOL, Stephen
We're not doctors
Well, even tht sometimes, but it is hard to operate on yourself when you are under anethesia<G>
MY DIY philosphy is do all (except some medical and dental) or stuff that requires a prescription, etc.
90+% of tasks take longer to find somebody to do it than to just do it.
Plus, how else can you rationalize buying every tool you ever see???
Um...careful on the blonde references there :)
I'm a bona-fide blonde chick who fixed her own dryer when it was broken two months ago (taught myself right then and there), figured out how to relight an old furnace yesterday (never lit one before), fixes the leaks in my roof, owns a 10" miter saw (last year's Christmas present from my husband.)
All while wearing lipstick. Though I save the evening gown for special occasions.
I'm allowed... I married a blonde, then produced 2 blonde girls and a blonde boy. 3 girls in a house, all with the hair down to their butts...yeah I clean my own drains...who could afford not too? I also know how to rebuild a sweepers when the hair wraps around the beater bars, motor shafts and seizes bearings.
They're all pretty smart, but I get as many blonde jokes in as I can, after all the girls outnumber the guys 3 to 2.
Ahh the dryer....I have a whirlpool we got 16 years ago when we got married....I'm gonna make it last till I die. Just last week I had to replace the belt, tensioner, rollers , rear drum seal and motor...all for $123...cleaned and oiled it.........first repairs in 16 years.
This is one of those threads I feared would become a blood bath.
Still may.
Nah. I think you missed the smiley face in my post.
I'm poking yah back. Just like I'd punch a brother in the arm.
U done with my drywall lift yet?
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Actually, yes! Thanks ever so kindly for it (bats eyelashes)
"(bats eyelashes)"
ok ... we got the boots walking ...
need more pics ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
ck out her website (via profile link) and you'll see LOTS of pics...
Vini, Vidi, Vino! I came, I saw, I wine!
"This is one of those threads I feared would become a blood bath. Still may."
Nah...tis the season to be jolly...love thy brethren and all good thoughts, right?
I mean, nobody's stressed about gifts not bought, bills to pay, flights to catch, time flying by...BT calling us like the Siren she is...
be an elfVini, Vidi, Vino! I came, I saw, I wine!
Keith--
I have it on the best authority that Mizz Shredder can swap out a 100 amp fusebox to 200 amp ALL WHILE WEARING HIGH HEELED BOOTS!
And Theodora? Well, she is our fearless leader.
...ALL WHILE WEARING HIGH HEELED BOOTS!
LMAO!
Nah - these are made for WALKING...Nancy Sinatra style that is...
Vini, Vidi, Vino! I came, I saw, I wine!
w00t!!!
I knew I was going to call THAT one, dead on!
I need me some high heeled boots...real Nancy Sinatra killers.
I can see that the red ones match your Milwaukee Brand tools. Are the black ones basic enough to go with everything else?
Edited 12/18/2004 2:29 am ET by jmo
Basic black goes with everything...but particularly well with Bosch.
(Santa, are ya out there...listening?)Vini, Vidi, Vino! I came, I saw, I wine!
Hmmm --- One black and one red for 240 volts? ;-)
-- J.S.
Keith ...
I can vouch for MizShred ...
Fest-wise ... come midnight ... ok .. maybe 2 or 3 am ...
when the rest of the "boy's" have curled up and are napping ...
she's a great one to have taking turns to the beer-well with ...
can't say much about her foot wear ... but more than once she got up to buy the next round ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
"...she's a great one to have taking turns to the beer-well with ..."
Aw schucks...yer too kind!
Pssstttt: Ifn you and Cathy had been around last nite with me and my buds here in beertown...woulda turned ya onto some East Side Dark* while I was doing the beer well runs...
Another state,
another brewery/winery.
Settin' their products free
That's ME!
*Lakefront brewing Co. , Milw., WIVini, Vidi, Vino! I came, I saw, I wine!
"All while wearing lipstick. Though I save the evening gown for special occasions."
LOL! Ditto at my end/house.
BTW, ya write most excellent posts in "Feedback on FHB" too.
Vini, Vidi, Vino! I came, I saw, I wine!
Ok, I am sold. Pay me 400k, I might even put in some overtime. And in that particular case, the man can say. I can mow one lawn or meet with one more client. hmm? mow the lawn save $40. Meet a client earn $1500. There are all kinds of circumstances to be sure.
> one of these days, they guy who knows how to "screw in a lightbulb will be the highest paid guy in the room"
No, any engineer in any big corporation will tell you that the big bucks go to the guy who knows how to screw the guy who knows how to screw in a lightbulb. ;-)
-- J.S.
No, any engineer in any big corporation will tell you that the big bucks go to the guy who knows how to screw the guy who knows how to screw in a lightbulb. ;-) at our company, the guy who get paid the most and get the most out of town overtime is the guy with the prettist wife.
Keith, you said something when you said "they don't teach their kids"! Bingo. I see it all the time. If my father taught me one thing it is "do it yourself", "try it you more likely than not can to it". Ok, is that two things.
Need a Christmas wreath? Give me two coat hangers and a tree in need of cutting back and fifteen minutes. Nothing like making $80/hour for my time. Actually factor in the effect on the equavilent wage and that is more like $120/ hour.
Blow the sprinklers out? Well $40 to call and get it done. Or pay for your air compressor in four years and another fifteen minutes a year.
Or I suppose you could work for a salary and put in an extra 20 hours a week for ZERO extra pay. Been there. OR take a job with a third less pay, put in your 40 hours, go home and DO IT YOURSELF.
People don't beleive how well I live on what I make. Read "the millionaire next door".
Of course, the ultimate solution is to be independently wealthy, lay in bed hooked up to a colostomy bag and a catheter, a feeding tube, and an IV for the liquids of your choice. At your bed side is a TV remote and a mindless 'babe' to change your bags, answer the phone, clean up after you....and stuff.
Yet I still prefer calouses, bruises and snotty weather....
I think that people are working longer hours and it takes both the wife and hubbys income to makle.
So theyt make up for it by paying someone to do some work for them. I on the other hand hust plain enjoy working with my hands doing things myself. But there are some things I sub out, drywall for one , roofing for another , those are things I will sub out.
"I mean, what kind of a twit makes a big deal out of having someone on ignore?
And, OTOH, there is no doubt that some of the idjits here are, in fact, the most ignored" ..Bob Walker
Ron, about the only reason that I've got left for attending any church, any organized religion at all, is to improve my chances that God will hear my prayers, most of which are for bigots like you...
I understand perfectly how I have insulted Ron... Theodora.
Jackofall,
" The Millionaire Next Door" was an Excellent book
you should also try Steven Silbergers'----- " The Jewish Phenomenon", particularly if you are interested in raising and educating children.
Best Wishes,
Stephen
" The Jewish Phenomenon",
Steve ... give a short book report, will ya?
Caught my interrest on that one ....
we're not jewish .... but the kid goes to a jewish daycare ...
decision was based on simple comparisons ... they had the best bang for the buck.
we've been thrilled with the results so far .... he's 3 ... started at one year old.
except he's at GrandMa's on Fri's ... misses "judaics" ....
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
there are some things that you can do and should do for yourself. Than there are things that you should leave for the pros. Yes you do go to the Dr. for medical help, but pull most of our own slivers,same for fixing your own car. No problem for most people who are mechanically inclined to change their own oil. But what about transmission repairs or and engine overhaul. Do you go out and buy about a $1,000.00 cdn for torque wrenches like I did for just that job, or do you let the pro do the job and end up with some kind ok a warranty and it done to specs. Some people pay me to put in that light bulb, and that's ok, I may pay them to do my income tax.Sometimes it is better to bight the bullet than to fall off of the roof and spend the next income free 6 weeks recovering from that fall.
Tom B
Awlright, Bob Walker..., what's with this "Bucky" thing?
Happy Holidays;
REZpiffinLarry
Jeff,
The author ( presumably Jewish) looks at about 7 different ways Jewish people approach different situations or problems-----and how their way may be ultimately more effective.
for example---work---and the protestant work ethic. The subtle belief that work is valuable in it's own right-------is actually non-productive
The REAL value of education( it's portable wealth-----very handy when the "cossaks" are coming"
Taking care of your own( and doing business with in the community ( this one concept has done VERY well for me Jeff)
Verbal confidence ( handy in some many ways-----especially when questioning authority)
Extravagance vs. frugality( another extremely helpfull idea when figuring out what REALLY is important
Worth of the individual
drive to succeed
Really Jeff,---read the book. I am afraid I haven't made it sound like a real page turner----and I have in no way covered what's actually in there.
I will say I re-read it about once a year. It's been helpfull in how I approach a lot of different situations. almost any situation that arises---------I will mentally walk around the situation and view it from a variety of mental angles. Invariably, I will see that I was predisposed to approach the solution from one or two particular directions-------------But that the MOST effective solution may well come from an entirely different direction I previously wouldn't have even considered.
If you want, Email me your snail mail address and I will mail you my copy on loaner( Stephens' private interlibrary loan service !)
Stephen
To each his own.Let me give you the flip side.A guy I know is very handy. He's also the kind of guy who always "knows a guy who" has every imaginable skill.(no, the guy isn't me - I don't know that many other guys)He doesn't particularly like his sales job and doesn't make that much doing it.But when the time came to finish off the basement of his house, the cost to do it professionally was twice is net annual income. He paid for it by refinancing his house, so by the time he gets done making the payments it will have cost him 3-4 times his net annual income. I know all this because he paid me to watch his child while he was at work.I never asked him because it was none of my business, but I always wondered why he didn't just quit his job for a couple of years and spend a few months doing the remodel himself. He would have come out ahead.Maybe he just didn't want to. That's understandable. But there are lots of folks who would make a different choice and that's understandable too.
Rob, since your taking a stand against the guy(s) that complain about proclaimed DIY’ers that state, “They just don’t have the time”. You need to understand from our point of view, we see this is as being told any monkey can do what we do. You likely also read in those posts how these same potential clients complained about bid cost being too high. I’ve done work for several people that have done good on several DIY projects in the past but bring me because they don’t have the time, however they also say “and I know you will do a better job”.
We can tell when the time comment is mentioned to either build up client, bring the contractor down, or is just the groundwork to beat us up on price later. That’s what pi$$es us off and brings out the post.