I just bought riverfront property and plan to build a small house to start, with the intentions of adding on later. Footprint is 24X26. Can the foundation be poured by hand using a cement mixer. Does the concrete mix have to be tested? What will the inspectors require? Pours would be done in sections, would this be a problem? Getting a concrete truck in will be tough.
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24'x26'x6"= about 11 cy of concrete...that's a lot of batches. You run the risk of a cold joint in the slab and/or foundation. Questions about testing and the inspector are a function of where you are...incorporated town, in the country, ?.
I wouldn’t consider it. Find a way to get a truck in. You won’t regret it.
For the slab alone, you will need:
4" thick » 7.5 cubic yards,
5" thick » 9.4 cubic yards,
6" thick » 11.9 cubic yards.
Don’t forget your footers and beams. That could add another 5 to 9 cubic yards. Don’t compromise your foundation with possible cold joints and mixing errors.
mebbe yes, mebbe no.. depends on your jurisdiction..where are you ?
as to the ?... can you .. sure... but first find out if you need to conform to any particular codes.. if you do , then they will decide how you go about it
and.... you could build it without a foundation , using pole-barn const.
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 12/10/2002 8:27:22 AM ET by Mike Smith
Have you thought about pumping the concrete?
Yes it will add cost, but will save a lot of time and avoid other problems
bobl Volo Non Voleo Joe's cheat sheet
Have you thought about a block foundation? Or maybe ICF?
That's an incredible amount of concrete to mix in a small machine. And how do you plan to get it into the forms?
Dentist, n.: A prestidigitator who, after putting metal in one's mouth, pulls coins out of one's pockets. [Ambrose Bierce]
Another option is a 2x6 PT 12" on Center Framed Foundation using PT Plywood on the outside and stood up over P Stone. There is an artical somewhere in the history of FHB that shows this. I have seen it completed on a job near a lake and it came out good.
Hacker454
Something else to think about... I wouldn’t suggest using Sackcrete for a foundation. I would mix your own concrete. This would permit use of a larger and more appropriate sized aggregate for a foundation. If you do this, you will need to make way for a dump truck to get to the mixing site anyway (why not just use a concrete truck instead).
Assuming that you are going to need a minimum of 15 cubic yards (likely closer to 18 or 19 yards). You will need about 8 to 9 yards of sand (1 large dump truck) and 12 yards of gravel, and 75 bags of cement. Remember, this is only based on 15 cubic yards. I think that you will need more. If you elected to use Sackcrete, you would need more than 400 sacks. Arrgghhhh, get a big bottle of Ibuprofen to go with it!
I'm in central Va. The amount on concrete I came up with is 3.75 yards. 100 linear ft X 18" X 8". Cinderblock on top of this to complete the foundation. The drain field is already in so getting to the foundation will be tough. I poured a 75'X3'X4" sidewalk this past summer using portland cement gravel and sand. I realize how much work it involves. I poured this in 8' sections. I was thinking of doing the foundation in sections, the way I poured the sidewalk, but wondered about the bond between each pour.
The dog decided to walk on the last section and I had gone out. My wife called me and I told her she needed to trowel it smooth. I expected a mess when I got back but found out it was the best looking section of the walk. (I didn't tell her that)
Anyway, thanks for you responses.
if you put rebar in the foundation you wont have bond issues but you might have waterproofing problems so i would seal the joints with concrete epoxy or a waterproof membrane similar to ice and water shield i think one of the brand names is bituthene and ithink w.r. grace also makes aproduct like that
What you're talking about pouring is FOOTING, not a FOUNDATION.
Big difference.We're kind of like the Simpsons on crack. [Axel Rose]
Footing is correct , and use #5 rebar. Make sure you stub it through each bulkhhead at least 4', to get a good lap and tie of the rebar in the next pour. Make sure your batches are cosistant and your footing bottom is well compacted.
I dug the footing for my garage 22 years ago, and poured them just as you are planning. I used u-haul it 1 yard carts, terrible stuff, and poured the footing 14" thick by 18" wide for a margin of error to compesate for questionable batches. I layed the block walls and floated the slap inside them. I sold the house two months ago and there has been no indication of step cracking or settleing problems at all. I think I made about four seperate pours, so there are at least three cold joints in that footing. I was working out of town at the time, and living on a meger buget, so I could not afford a one shot pour. Seems like it took me a couple of months to get just the footing paid for. I also hand dug those footing, because I couldn't afford a backhoe.
Point is, if you plan it and do it right, the cold joints won,t be problem in a footing you are going to cover up anyway.
Dave
I just found this thread and I'm suprised that by now, nobody has asked what kind of soils this footing is to be built on. That's the first thing to know.
But assuming that it has good solid bearing soils, well compacted, Yes, it can be done, but having done it, I wouldn't recomend it.
And knowing that it will be done anyway, I'll suggest that you try to plan it so that you can pour it all in one day to avoid cold joints. An old German freind of mine did it that way. (He was too stubborn to pay for ready mixed) He had a pour party and invited all his friends. Both of us showed up! LOL At least you get to find out who your real friends are. The false ones will show up to enjoy the waterfront property though, after you get it all built..
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
why are you thinking about this? saving money? lack of concrete plants in your area?
if its money, the risk of cold joints versus the small amount of money you save and huge workload for you! can not be worth it!
;)
Oh Man!!?
Where can I get seeds for 'concrete plants'? Can I grow them in this climate? Do they need processing or do you just dig yuour excavation and plant the seeds and wait for rain to build the footer? Are seeds less expensive than nursurey grown starters? I never knew about this new advance in genetic engineering. Gotta go now to eat some rebarb pie. #5
;).
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
Thanks piffin, now I feel like a dork for laughing at concrete humor....that's not a mistake, it's rustic
piffin,
?
don't you get the Burpee catalogue?bobl Volo Non Voleo Joe's cheat sheet
Yes, can the pages be shredded into the mix like paper mache' to retard the cure and avoid cold joints?
Speaking of cold joints, My arthritis is really bad today.
Burpee, huh?.
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
very weak plant humor piffin! the superior being/alien joke was much funnier imho!haha
if this guy wants to lose some weight mixing/wheelbarreling/finishing his own crete, more power to him, sounds like something a thrifty mainer would do eh?
Suffice it to say that you and I are not always on the same wavelength. I didn't mean the superior being as a joke. It's a term we use on the job here that mixes truth with humour subtly, like when a customer says, "I'll have to ask the boss..." no-one doubts that he means his wife..
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
How bout piers?
Be a pier
Namaste
andy
You don’t complete your inner work before you do your outer work. Nor do you say, "Well, the hell with the inner work: I’ll go do the outer work because it’s so important and pressing." That’s not conscious either. The conscious thing is the simultaneous doing of both. "Ram Dass"
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
If you can get a truck in there you should be able to get a truck mounted line pump. Get it in as far as possible and run the line the rest of the way. If you have a slab, go with a slab with a thickened edge and go up with the block off of that. One placement and you are out of that operation and into the block. Be sure to have plenty of labor on site as a plugged line will have everyone running around breaking hoses down.
Thanks, for all replies. I'm in the planning stages and will probably have more questions.
Good Luck
We'll probably have more answers.
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
Ram
good luck but I think I'd do a bunch of piers if you don't get a truck in. They do them to hold houses up by the ocean around here so....
Have fun
Namaste
AndyYou don’t complete your inner work before you do your outer work. Nor do you say, "Well, the hell with the inner work: I’ll go do the outer work because it’s so important and pressing." That’s not conscious either. The conscious thing is the simultaneous doing of both. "Ram Dass"http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
In the photo gallery section, there's a thread called "New Footing in the Middle of the House". It's about a footing that I did by hand with a small electric mixer. It was about 2/3 of a yard, and it took me all day to do and the next day to rest up. But then I'm 54 years old and not in great shape. The biggest question is what kind of shape you're in. If you're young and strong, doing 11 yards yourself isn't out of the question. Even I could probably do it, given 6-8 weeks of working a day and resting two.
As for the strength of the concrete, here in LA the city requires a minimum of 2500 psi, but for my two story building, they don't require testing to prove that. For grins, I made one cylinder and had it tested at 28 days. It was 6390 psi. The sand and gravel I got were dirty enough that I pre-washed them, and I mixed it as dry as I could and still work the stuff.
-- J.S.
Call a concrete contractor, he will probably pump the concrete footing or power buggy from the truck. 11 yards is too much to mix and pour manually. Some things are not cost conscious to do yourself, this is one of them.After the concrete is poured you could do the rest of the work yourself. If the foundation is screwed up , whatever work you do in the future is for naught.
John I'm curious - what were the dimensions of your cylinder sample and how did you go about collecting it? I'd like to do the same for my foundation, or at least have the sample and test it later for confirmation if problems arise.
Also - while we're on the topic --- the footing for my two-storey house with walkout basement on Lake Erie (= HIGH wind loading) was made with a keyway, but no rebar extending from it to tie it to the foundation. Is this normal practise, to only have gravity holding the entire house to the footing?
Thanks - Brian.
I mixed and poured the footer for my 24 by 32 ft barn using a small elect mixer. Then the slab. I did it because I'm in my 70s and I really needed the exercise. I'm glad I did it.
BJGardening, cooking and woodworking in Southern Maryland
Now that we know that you are pretty doggone healthy for an old fart, tell us whether that footing is any good, if it had cold joints, and if those cold joints show signs of movement. If not, how did you manage to keep from having cold joints? I'm sure the questioner is looking for more pertinent information than your age and health, unless you are volunteering to show up at his 'crete party!
;-)>.
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
Man those portable electric concrete mixers are the cats meow I mixed 50 bags of sacrete today in about 5 hours.I have been renting this mixer from home depot for 35$ a day and I have decided to go ahead and buy one. It mixes two bags at a time and you can roll the mixer right up to the pour so you don't have to transfer it to a wheelborrow .
ANDYSZ2I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
> John I'm curious - what were the dimensions of your cylinder sample and how did you go about collecting it?
The sample cylinder is 6" diameter by 12" high. You start by picking up plastic cylinder molds from the lab that will do your testing. They're accustomed to bigger projects where sombody picks up cartons of dozens of them, it's a surprise when you only want one. Twining Labs in Long Beach did my test for $35. I've heard that that's on the high side, but around here they seem to be the only one. The standard way to do it is to test some samples at specific ages, like 7 days and 28 days. 28 is usually the last one, so that's the only one I did.
To make the sample, you fill the cylinder mold about 1/3 full, rod it with a 1/2" diameter steel rod a specific number of times (25 if I remember right), add another 1/3, rod it again, fill it full, rod again, screed off the top, and put the plastic cap on. Set it aside in a safe place, and take it to the lab the next day. Your lab will give you the correct instructions.
> I'd Also - while we're on the topic --- the footing for my two-storey house with walkout basement on Lake Erie (= HIGH wind loading) was made with a keyway, but no rebar extending from it to tie it to the foundation. Is this normal practise, to only have gravity holding the entire house to the footing?
Here in earthquake country, the typical thing is to have the footing and stemwall made as a continuous pour, with lots of rebar in it. From there up everything is well tied together vertically with lots of Simpson hardware. In the old days, they used to build by laying the mudsills on top of the concrete with nothing but gravity to keep the house there. There's quite a business here in retrofitting those old houses.
Unless you're in tornado country, your wind loading should be mostly horizontal. That keyway gives you lots of horizontal resistance. Tornadoes and earthquakes give you the vertical problem. Somebody local can probably give you a more relevant answer than that.
-- J.S.
Thanks John, all good info.
Regards - Brian.
Whoever asked about the soil(piffin I think) was on the money. With cold joints, rebar or not, when/if the soil shifts the sections of footing will likely move up or down with it. The rebar will keep them together until it rusts away. A saying goes "a house is only as good as its foundation" or in this case its footing. With a block wall the is even less room for error. Lets say a concrete truck is not possible like on small island jobs. If I were attempting this I would get more than one mixer and whether I used Sacrete bags or sand and gravel I would increase the amount of portland in the mix to make up for any errors in mixing that might occur especially around 3 or 4 in the afternoon. By the way, I think eventually you'll want to be able to drive up to your new digs so aren't you going to need a driveway? Just curious. Good luck.
Ian
Increasing the amt of portland will give it more compressive strength (harder) but also make it more brittle and prone to shrinkage cracks..
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
John's question on how old you are is a good one, second only to the all important soil bearing.
If you don't need pilings and have good soil, and are in your 20s, you can probably do 11 yards (4 easily) with a 3-1/2 cu ft + mixer in a day. Heck, I'm 57 and did 6 yards easily in a day this spring (but I was able to back my dump truck right up to my mixer) Buy 'reclaim' or gravel mix at the yard, then you only have to add cement.
Where's Gabe on this one, we had a similar discussion on hand mixing awhile back.
Can your wife help? Heck, when we built our house, my wife melted tar in a 55 gal barrel and carried it in 5 gal bucket hot to the roof for me (will never let me forget it either, so build your memories now<G>)
It certainly is doable. Worked for a friend some years back and used my mixer (6cf) to do some footings/ foundations where access was difficult (cottages, islands). As Piffin suggests, do your homework on the soil bearing capacity. Make sure your forms are level, square, and strong. Bend your rebar in advance and suspend it from the forms at the proper height. Stubs can be tied to the horizontal pieces. Make sure you have easy access to all points of the form with a fully loaded wheelbarrow of concrete. Add any ramps etc before you start. I'd nix the idea of cold joints. With 3 people (1 to mix, 1 to wheel, 1 to work the concrete), you should easily do the footing in one pour. Some test cylinders are a good idea; I'd do a test batch to check out if your concrete recipe gives you the required strength.
Riverfront property is not cheap no matter where you live. You got to be able to get trucks in and out so pay up front to get in a good road then build when you can afford to. Call around see if anyone has a small truck ie; hauls up to 7 yds. JMHO, Roger
I believe I made an earier comment about pumping, what I didn't say is that there are small pumps about the size of a large air compresser you see being towed. Used that twice, pump was towed by a car.bobl Volo Non Voleo Joe's cheat sheet