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Framing Connection

andyb | Posted in Construction Techniques on April 2, 2007 10:00am

Picture attached of a connection that is keeping me up nights.

Double 2×10 joist hanger spiked to double LVL beam.  Hanger is supporting a double 2×10 that supports joists for full attic/ possible future living space.

LVL engineered for load, hanger detail was not.  Not much detail in the plans.  Looking for good ideas.

Thanks. Andy.

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  1. User avater
    BossHog | Apr 02, 2007 10:08pm | #1

    Looks like that may be a Simpson LUS210-2?

    If it is, their book says it's good for 1,765#.

    How much is the 2X10 header carrying? I doubt it would carry that much weight. If it isn't overloaded the hanger probably isn't either.

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    1. andyb | Apr 02, 2007 10:22pm | #2

      Double 2x10 header carrying joists supporting 3rd floor attic/ future living area.  No roof load.

      1. User avater
        BossHog | Apr 02, 2007 10:39pm | #3

        "Double 2x10 header carrying joists supporting 3rd floor attic/ future living area."

        O.K. - But how MUCH area. You can't figure loads without having the correct information.

        How long is the header? And how long are the joists that tie into it?
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      2. rnsykes | Apr 02, 2007 10:40pm | #4

        Shouldn't it be a top mount hanger?

      3. Hudson Valley Carpenter | Apr 02, 2007 10:41pm | #5

        One option that comes readily to mind...you could use a double 2X12 hanger, instead of the double 2X10.  That would give you a few extra nails into the LVL. 

      4. Framer | Apr 02, 2007 10:55pm | #6

        Nothing wrong with that at all Andy. I use them in that situation every day.Joe Carola

  2. User avater
    Gene_Davis | Apr 02, 2007 11:49pm | #7

    Andy, I'll go with Boss's figure of 1765# for the hanger.  I'm too lazy to go to the Simpson site and do the lookup.

    If it is picking up a floor loading only as you say, just look at the L x W of the floor area.

    Take that L and multiply it by the W, then divide by 4, and multiply it by, say, 45 pounds, to be safe.  If you are under the 1765 pounds, you can rest peacefully tonight.

    Of course, if you would refrain from sleeping under the darn thing, you could rest easily, too! ;-)

    1. User avater
      BossHog | Apr 03, 2007 01:01am | #8

      I would never consider using 45 PSF for a floor load. That only allows for about a 30# live load.I know that's allowed for some sleeping areas, but I won't use it. You never know what someone will do up there in the future.
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      1. andyb | Apr 03, 2007 03:08pm | #9

        Floor area supported is 210 sqft.  Using Gene's numbers that comes out to a load of about 2363#.  Sounds like you think that the 45# per sqft used in the calc. might be too light also?

        Double 2x10 header length is about 8 feet.

        Can you make a specific hanger recommendation/  Looks like simpson's model hus210-2 would be heavy enough.

        Thanks for the help everyone. Andy

        1. User avater
          BossHog | Apr 03, 2007 03:31pm | #10

          O.K. - I'm a little confused. You said the header was 8' long, and it supports 210 square feet of floor area. But 210 square feet divided by 8 would mean that the joists that tie into the beam were about 26' long.So that doesn't sound right at all. Unless maybe it's carrying 13' on two different floors?Assuming your 210 square feet is correct, I would figure the floor load at 55 PSF. So 55 times 210 divided by 4 would be 2,887#. You're right in saying that an HUS210-2 won't carry that. We carry some Simpson HGUS28-2 hangers that are good for about 7,000# or so. Occasionaly someone will come by wanting one and we just give one to them. If you don't have any truss plants around that will give or sell you such a hanger, you'll probably have to order one from a lumberyard.The danged things have a boatload of nail holes, and they'll be a bear to nail in that position..BTW - A double 8' 2X10 SYP #1 is about 25% overstressed given the loading you came up with. Probably not a big deal unless an inspector catches it - You're not likely to ever see that whole floor loaded at one time.And - Like Gene suggested - You can probably technically get away with a 30# live load for 2nd floor sleeping rooms anyway.
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        2. User avater
          Gene_Davis | Apr 03, 2007 03:36pm | #11

          You are saying that the tributary area of the floor is 210 sf? 

          Remember, if it is a rectangular floor area, that the tributary area is 1/4 of the total floor area.

          To arrive at the 45 psf, I took 30 psf (normally used for sleeping rooms) and added another 15 psf for deadload, which is pretty conservative.

          Think of that tributary area load another way.  If that doubled 2x10 header is 8 feet long, the hanger is picking up half its loading, so whatever is coming to the header times 4 is the load.  I back into the calculation, using your result of 2363#, and come up with floor joists at a length of a little over 26 feet heading off at your floorbeam.

          Here is the calc, done to get close to your result.  Half the header length x half the joist length x the loading.   4 x 26/2 x 45 = 2340#

          I'll bet you left something out of your calc, like slicing stuff in half.

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