Hope someone can help me out here!
I am putting a patio door and a window in the wall of an old house, that leads to a new deck. The wall doesn’t carry much load at all. The inspector said that two 2×4’s will suffice as the header for both door and window (one header). If I want the door and the window to be butted up as close as possible, how many studs will end up being between them? If the door is framed as normal with a trimmer and a king stud, do I have to sandwich another trimmer and another king stud to them for the window, or is it just another trimmer on the window side, with the one king stud shared ?Is it three studs in total or four?
Thanks!
Replies
2 studs, but still use a 2x6 header
First you have to tell us what approx. width the door and window is. To me a patio door is at least 5' wide, but maybe you have something different in mind... a window could be anywhere between 2' and 8'...
Also, you have to give us some kind of idea how much load is above the window/door. Is this a 2 story house with the door/window on the first floor? Or is it a one story house? Is the door/window on a gable end? If it is on a gable end, is the roof trussed or stick framed?
BTW - the studs in the middle of the header are called stud-pockets.
Hi Matt,I realize I was a bit short on hard info in my post!The door is just a 36" wide single glazed door that leads onto a deck. The window is a 25" wide window whose top will line up with the top of the door. The inspector has already said that because its a single story house (just a small attic above) and that its under the gable end of the roof (ie. this wall will run parallel with ceiling joists, so not much load) i can use two 2x4's on the flat.
I was thinking of framing it like a regular door frame : trimmer stud supporting header, 'king' stud from top plate to bottom plate than another trimmer stud to support the windows header which would be at the same height as the doors header. So in total, between door and window, three studs sandwiched together....What do you think?
Sounds fine but a few comments. Don't put the 2x4s on the flat. They yeild more strength if they are "upright" with a spacer between. 2x6 would be better, but is not required. Re the 3 studs between the window and the door, are you sure your window/door trim (casing molding) is gonna fit? Also, might look a little funny with the window/door jambed together like that but if you are space constrained it will be fine as long as you don't have to rip the casing. Or, maybe you are not using casing...
I realize that the 2x4's on the flat is a bit odd...but the building inspector actually told me to do it that way.
I am trimming the exterior of the window and door with 1x6 trim, so the three studs between, plus overlap onto the door and window frame will keep the vertical trim piece between them looking fairly consistent with the rest of the trim, width wise. Thanks for your comments!
I was actually refering to the interior trim...
exterior trim - not sure I understand what you are saying, but in the end, it's personal preference.
Hey Matt,Interior trim will look good too, but thanks for thinking of it!
I will be using 1x6 ultralite MDF for trim all around on the inside.
Actually, Matt, the load on that headeer is not from above. The strength that might be needed is more form the side - wind loads on the wall, so the way the inspector suggested is better if he does not go with 2x6 or greater.
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I don't necessarily agree. Not sure how you can make a statement about wind loads when we have no idea of where he lives. There are other factors that are potentially involved too. Really though, I don't think it makes much difference one way or the other.
Edited 9/3/2005 9:25 pm ET by Matt
here is how we can make that statement -
There is no effective live laod from aboveThe minimum live laod anywhaere for a wall is going to be 10-15 pounds
The beats zero in any location
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I see your point about live loads, but is this a trussed roof? I don't think we know... If it is, gable end trusses need continuous support down to the foundation - hence there is vertical dead load on the wall. And, infact, there is always going to be dead load on a wall - be it gable end or not.
To take it a step further with some conjecture, why is it not common building practice to use only minimally sized headers (2x4) on all gable end wall openings?
up to 4' use a 4x4.
up to 6' use a 4x6,
up to 8' use a 4x8 with two trimmers at each end,
up to 10' use a 4x10 w/ " " " " " .
You are talking headers I assume....interesting way of remebering approximate header dimensions for given spans...thanks.
Those headeer sizes are rules of thumb in general only when there is a one story house with no added second flor above and no extreme live loads required on roof, such as in high snow areas.Matt, I see what you are saying too.
I think the main reason headers normally get sized all the same is that it is far easier to do and keep track of to have a list of all header lengths and hand it to the carpenter helper at start of day and have him build all of them. Listing too many varying sizes for a beginner will invariably result in some mistake or other and slow the job down.
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