I’m no framer.
But I was driving around today and saw this add-on in progress.
I hate to appear as an armchair quarterback but if this was my house I’d have some serious questions.
I mean like is that a normal practice to toenail those rafters into the roofing like that? Seems like there should be a base plate lagged down thru to the old rafters or something.
Would think that they should have continued on stick framing with a ridgeboard instead of changing to trusses in the middle like that.
But whatta I know.
Am I outta my tree on this?
be dead on or that quarter inch is going to haunt you
Replies
It's fairly common in areas that trusses are used (not my area, gratefully) to switch from trusses to stick framing at valleys.
As far as toe nailing jack rafters directly into... oh wait....not directly.... through the shingles and into the sheathing.........that just hideous. WTF?!?!
I want to see the flashing detail on the that little number. Plans call for plenty of sillicone, I hear. Must be the same builder who built Sasha's place in Atlanta in the other thread.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
Sasha's place in Atlanta in the other thread. Which thread?Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
Sasha's probs are in thread no. 47360--Curiously Concerned...
As far as this one goes, I too can't believe any builder'd be dumb enough to tack on a full-scale addition that way. All the live and dead loads from the new roof will be transferred down to the sheathing as point loads. Wanna bet that roof sheathing is 7/16 OSB, LOL? What a joke....Dinosaur
'Y-a-tu de la justice dans ce maudit monde?
Two main areas of ugliness here:
1. load transfer to sheathing. Truss spec'er may or may not know what is going on with supporting structures, but building inspector surely has seen it. Hopefully there are pony walls added under existing roof, but on the surface it looks awful, point loading as Dinosaur points out. How can an engineered system like trusses be installed incomplete like that? When I have done roofs like this, we are supplied with a series of ever-smaller trusses instead of those valley jacks in the picture. The bottom chord spreads the load across several rafters.
2. installing over existing roofing: technical terms like icky, yucky, gross come to mind. Methinks this framer will find himself doing his own shingling on this one because no roofer will touch it IMHO. How to tie in and stay leak free? Who knows?
Lignum est bonum.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=47360.1
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Thanks for the laugh. Man. You say YOU aren't a framer? What the heck do you call that guy? You at least recognised something wasn't right.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain
While I do agree this has plenty of negatives, I don't think it's all that bad. What I mean is I like to use something like a 2x8 nailed to the roof sheathing for the jacks to bear on. What they are doing is a biggie no no, for all the aforementioned reasons. I would be willing to bet the framer is only making more work for the roofer (most likely himself) and is planning to cut the valley of old shingles and pulling them back to either reshingle the whole thing or tie the newer ones in. Am i wrong in remembering the existing shingles look fairly new?
It's very common here to frame roofs that way,using trusses and hand frame components. I would have rathered hand frame the entire roof, but again, hand rafter framing just doesn't happen so much around here.
Another way to look at it, at least it looks like the hand framed components, all though bearing on essentially nothing, are sized correctly for the application!
I'm with Hook - Doesn't seem that bad to me.
The truss/rafter valley framing combo is the norm here. Don't see anything wrong with that, in general.
Technically, the valley framing is supposed to be supported every 4' down to the roof below. That spreads the load out more evenly on the roof below. But I rarely see that done.
It could be they left the existing shingles there to preserve the roof for as long as possible. When they have to, they'll peel back a couple of shingles and weave new ones back in to form the valley. I've done that before myself. Works fine.
The only thing I see wrong is the lack of a nailer under the valley rafters. And that probaby isn't a big deal, if they go in and add some supports under those longer rafters.
The wise man would rather see men needing him than thanking him
>>It could be they left the existing shingles there to preserve the roof for as long as possible. When they have to, they'll peel back a couple of shingles and weave new ones back in to form the valley. I've done that before myself. Works fine.
Or once the new sheathing is in place they may do a whole re-roof, ie roof over old and new on new.
Not what I would do, obviously not an abundance of active brain cells on the job......
EricEvery once in a while, something goes right!
Well, I suppose you know I had to drive by there again today to take a look at the ridgeline.
True, guilty of snooping but I had to know.be dead on or that quarter inch is going to haunt you
I don't see much wrong with it at all ...
sure a nailer would be nice ... but it's only a nailer fer crying out loud.
all a nailer would do for such a short span is make it a bit easier to assemble ...
the ridge and the trusses aren't a problem.
Not like there's a 40' long vaulted ceiling going on there ...
and did anyone think maybe there were gonna just cut back the valley(existing shingles) and flash up under?
keep on moving folks ... nothing to see here ...
JeffBuck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
I'm glad some of you ( Boss, Hook, Jeff) think it's OK, cause when I first saw it, I too saw nothing seriously wrong with it . Those of you referring to point loads and such, take a good look at those pics...the addition is at best, a 10 foot projection from the original house structure, and probably less than 15 foot wide, and is a simple single story structure...I honestly don't see a lot of loading with this structure; period. I've built outdoor sheds larger than this.
As for the truss/stick frame combo... the stick framing is only on the original roof, and probably it was cheaper and faster to stick frame this section than to place an order and wait for special sized trusses to be manufactured and sent to the job site. Once the rafter framing has been nailed off with plywood, the whole roof should be structurally sound anyway. Infact, this framing technique is not much unlike that demonstrated in a few books by Larry Haun in which he refers to this as a "California Valley."
And, no one here, including me, knows for sure whether or not the framer went into the original attic and sistered in a few more rafters where needed to help take this load...it's quite possible that may have been done as well. Although seriously...there is really very little additional load here...unless this house is subjected to 10 foot snow drifts every winter.
I've seen this framing done lots of times for small additions and they have always turned out just fine. I've framed similar to this except I usually strip the shingles where my intended rafters were to go, and I nail down a 2x plate to the roof and then nail my rafters to that...but, on other job sites, I have seen the EXACT framing as shown in the pics and again, the jobs turned out just fine.
As for roof leaks, with all the new types of membrane flashings, and valley weaving techniques...there is absolutely no reason why this roof could not be made to be leak free....I know many a roofer that could EASILY handle that job on that roof; and would do so gladly.
Davo
aside from running a valley nailer ...
I've done the same many times ...
no harm in framing over existing shingles.
and I ran a nailer just to make my life easier.
JeffBuck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry