Over the years I have done a lot of different estimates for people from new construction to restoration. Some jobs I get and some I don’t. Some estimates are very easy to do and I don’t mind doing them. Others are very time consuming and can be quite costly. One time I did an estimate for a 5000 sq/ft house and it turned out the guy just wanted to get a material list from me so he could build the house himself. When I didn’t give him the material list he went to my building supplier and tried to get the list from them and they also refused. That guy was using me. Things like that have happened many times.
Recently a lady called me and wants an estimate to put an addition on her house. She also wants a new septic system, asbestos siding removed and replaced with something else, all new HVAC, new bathroom and a bunch of other stuff. She said she is getting an estimate from someone else also to compare bids. I get the feeling this is going to be another waste of time but you never know. She wants me to do it cost plus and wants to see bids from all the subs. This is very time consuming. Should I be charging people for estimates like this?
Replies
you better believe you should be charging a non-refundable fee for the estemates..
tire kickers vaporize when you let them know ther is a fee..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
What should I charge them? I've heard of some people letting the money the homeowner pays for the estimate go towards the job if they get it. I probably shouldn't even do that. My time is my time and I should charge for that.
exactly...
charge what your time is worth...
I'd never credit back the fee to the job.. the estimate was work performed..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I'd never credit back the fee to the job.. the estimate was work performed..>>>
I agree but that's easy to say. I mean, the money that they "supposedly" are getting back if you get the job which is how I phrase it ends up always becoming just BS anyway. It eventually gets added into the job just like a lot of unforeseen things customers don't even think about. Like the time to shop for the materials, clean up, set ups blah blah blah
If a guy is just starting out he may not have the option a well seasoned contractor has with a nice sized clientele base.Ya gotta figure all angles.
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
"This post, in response to your question, will bump the thread through the 'recent discussion' listing again.
Perhaps it will catch someone's attention that can help you with advice.
Cheers, rez"
so that's what I just said...
so in bit more in proper terms.. guesstimates as long as they only take about 5 or ten minutes and are only verbal are free..
for me to do the paper work and take off.. that's not free.. whether it be an estimate or proposal....
when the customer tries to start haggling and whining.. the price escalates because they gave me a chance to go over the bid and I found a few line items that I had missed...
the price of the take off it is not refundable nor does it become a credit..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I'll give away a free ball park, but charge for detailed estimates.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I'll give away a free ball park, but charge for detailed estimates.>>>
Am "estimate" is close to worthless. No such thing as a detailed estimate.
You need to watch how you phrase things or you'll get yourself in trouble.
Its either an estimate or its a proposal. I give free estimates and I charge for proposals.
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
"This post, in response to your question, will bump the thread through the 'recent discussion' listing again.
Perhaps it will catch someone's attention that can help you with advice.
Cheers, rez"
zounds like what you call an estimate is more like what I call a SWAG
( silly wild azzt guess) as opposed to a SWAG( scientific wild azzed gues)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks for the help. I can quickly guesstimate something using square footage and past experience and call that an estimate but a proposal will cost ya. I realize that some people can come up with a proposal faster than others but what is an acceptable price range for a proposal? I'm probably on the slow side.
youre not on the slow side. You're just new to this. Its your company and you need to be comfortable with your own decissions so thats on you. You'll live and learn. Outside of that...charge what you'd charge if you were doing a job. Its no different.
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
"This post, in response to your question, will bump the thread through the 'recent discussion' listing again.
Perhaps it will catch someone's attention that can help you with advice.
Cheers, rez"
One other thing..yeh sure..lol.
Its all in how you sell yourself. You have to stand out from the rest of the pack in your own way.
If you don't than youre just another number to toss out the window for the customer.
If their price shopping you don't need that either. feel them out...connect with them.
Be well
andy
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
"This post, in response to your question, will bump the thread through the 'recent discussion' listing again.
Perhaps it will catch someone's attention that can help you with advice.
Cheers, rez"
the price of your estimate is based on the time and effort it took to put it together... or what YOU are comfortable with..
if you would like pricing on proposal estimates.. get out your check book.. be glad to come up with a pricing schedual for ya...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
One thing that I think helps is letting them know whats up "before" anyone gets serious which is why I talk about it in my web site so they can see whats up before they even meet me...under "contact andy". I don't exactly say I charge cause I don't wanna scare them away immediatly before we even meet. My explanation in my site should be a pretty good set up to allow us to discuss how much a proposals gonna cost them.
I still have to work on that wording in my site though.http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
"This post, in response to your question, will bump the thread through the 'recent discussion' listing again.
Perhaps it will catch someone's attention that can help you with advice.
Cheers, rez"
Edited 11/19/2006 11:11 pm ET by andybuildz
"Thanks for the help. I can quickly guesstimate something using square footage and past experience and call that an estimate but a proposal will cost ya. "One way that you can give those "questimates" without letting the client think that it is a specific esitmate for there job is to have a portfolio.Then pick out jobs that are somewhat like theirs and say this was a 300 foot addition and cost $45,000. This one is 400 sq ft and has a high end bathroom. It was $70,000.
zounds like what you call an estimate is more like what I call a SWAG
( silly wild azzt guess) as opposed to a SWAG( scientific wild azzed gues)<<<<<<Well to be honest with you..it still confuses the hell outta me. I can charge someone that knows me...sometimes..sometimes not. Its a real grey topic to me. Sonny Lykos can charge cause his company was/is really well known in his area and people want him (his son)...but a guy just starting out? Good luck. Like I told the poster (sorry, I forgot his name already)...he's got to do what he's comfortable with right now and learn from his actions. I'd have to say to a newbie...don't get caught in your own webs and live in them. Learn from them and climb out slowly. Its the best way to learn if anyones asking me : )
Everyone's different...different sensitivities.
OMG...Do I really have to go back workin'in peoples houses again...oiy.Don't I get a reprieve after 30 some odd years...lol
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
"This post, in response to your question, will bump the thread through the 'recent discussion' listing again.
Perhaps it will catch someone's attention that can help you with advice.
Cheers, rez"
To bad Sonny Lykos isn't around. He LOVES this topic. Its been run into the ground already but I haven't seen it come up in a spell so I reckon its about time again.
To me an estimate they get for free. Its worthless though.
Yes you should charge for the "proposal" when its this big. Do they have a set of plans? How serious are they? I don't like the idea of charging for a "proposal" and telling the client they'll get that refunded if they use you because you did spend the time but that idea is an option.
You need to explain to the prospective client in order for you to do a precise "proposal" you need to be paid for your time and the proposal is theirs to use as they wish.
An "estimate" is almost worthless. Its only a guess-timate. You need to explain that to your client.
A proposal is as close to a contract as you can get.
Good luck
BE well
andy
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
"This post, in response to your question, will bump the thread through the 'recent discussion' listing again. Perhaps it will catch someone's attention that can help you with advice. Cheers, rez"
Edited 11/19/2006 9:30 pm ET by andybuildz
and wants to see bids from all the subs.
Sounds like she read an article in Ladies Home Journal on how to deal with a contractor.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Charging for estimates is tough. There is no doubt we should, but as someone mentioned, most client's idea of the building process comes from home magazines, and they aggressively push getting multiple bids and never bring up paying for the time it took to work them up.
One way to try and ensure you are not just being used for price comparisons might be to discuss it up front with the client. Ask if there is any reason why you would not get the job if you are the low bidder, if they have a preferred contractor, and ask that they tell you why you did not succeed if another guy gets the job. It might stop a few people taking advantage of you, but probably won't stop those that just wanted a dollar amount for their bank.
Good luck, its a tough one.
In some of the previous threads on this topic, there was quite a bit of discussion centering around pre-qualifying customers - ie, picking up on the signs of who is serious and who is treating your time as disposable.
In the particular instance that you cite, since you have already had the initial contact with the customer, maybe a prudent way to proceed would be to give pricing on a few of the items and explain to the lady that if she wants to hire you to perform any of these items you will be happy to price out the others, but since your time is very valuable you cannot price out all these items without some kind of compensation - be it via a job or other means.
BTW - from what very little I know of this stuff, the fact that she asked to see subcontractor bids and wants cost plus, sounds a little unusual. Further, I would guess that giving her copies of the subcontractor bids prior to a signed contract would not be a wise business decision.
I started a thread in business section not long ago titled " are free estimates really free" . I just tried quick searcg for it , and hit on another thread same topic started by Dinosaur, titled "no more free estimates damnit". http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=34384.1 havn't gone thru it yet but his opening post gave a lot to think about.
looks like theres lots to find in the search function. ( often i find search to be fruitless, as I end up with a ton pf unlrelated topics. ) But I also often like to here the fresh imput.
Thanks to all!. I'll have to call these people today with a ballpark and see where they want to go from there. ALRIGHTYTHEN- Thanks for the link to the other thread.