We have a long (1000′) driveway. Our climate hovers from about five degrees above freezing to five degrees below for the entire Winter. During warm spells the driveway turns to pudding because the frozen earth won’t let water drain downward.
What’s the best way to deal with this?
Thanks,
Scott.
Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.â€
Replies
Good studded tires. Tire chains in the trunk if it gets really bad, they are MUCH more capable. (One of the few things that Californians know about snow that New Englanders don't). And a contract with the guy with the sanding truck.
Paving it with a slight crown would help but you need a good base before you should attempt to pave it. Plus the cost will be huge.
Or sell it to some folks who move to the area next spring.
I'd go with Nokian Hakepilita 1's.
The only way I know to deal with it is more rock.
As the ground thaws, it thaws from the top down. As the water thaws out and expands it has to go somewhere. It can't go down, since the ground is still frozen below. So it has to go up.
The water being forced up through the ground loosens the particles of soil up and makes it almost like quicksand.
Adding gravel WITHOUT fines will help. The larger openings in the gravel will give the water a path to travel through. You'll have to build it up over time to get a solid base.
This is partly speculation, since I haven't seen your driveway. But I'd almost bet that a solid base was never established. If there was a base of large rock with a layer of smaller stuff on top, this wouldn't likely be happening.
It could also be that you have drainage issues, and the water isn't gettign away from the road surface after it rains. No way to tell without seeing the thing.
If you REALLY want it solid, you're probably going to have to tear it up and re-build it. Starting with a gravel fabric, then larger rock covered with smaller stuff. But that would obviously be expensive.
No easy fix, unfortunately.
I have a similar driveway situation. I put down geotextile fabric first, I could use some more gravel, but nothing will sink down or make ruts, even in the few squishy spots.
Geotextile is a good way to go for problem areas.If you compare the cost of the fabric with the cost of the material it replaces, it's the best deal in town.It won't be cheap, but if (after things thaw) you prepare a properly elevated and drained subgrade using native materials, install the fabric, put about eight inches to a foot (loose) of base course over the fabric, compact it to around 95% at optimal moisture content, pitch it to drain, and top with a fully-fractured stone, you probably won't have to bother with your driveway any more for a while. And then the maintenance should be minimal.
I'm putting in 1500' of lane now - similar situation. It sounds like my plan of putting crusher run straight on top of subsoil isn't gonna work. Maybe a base of shale first, then the crusher run. Man this is gonna be expensive.
I'm guessing geotextile for 1500' of lane would be real pricey.
Treat every person you meet like you will know them the rest of your life - you just might!
I have a shale base on top of the fabric. I would have used more than the cost of fabric for extra base material if I did not use fabric.
The fabric should not cost much more than about 6 cents a square foot.The base course it replaces can easily be ten times that.Fabric does several things, mostly what you are concerned with here is incresing shear strength, promoting drainage, and preventing the migration of unsuitable soils (segregation).You can use almost anything but expansive clay or organics for your subgrade. (With a little experience and practice you can even use that, but I wouldn't try it.) That's the beauty of geotextile. Whatever you have will probably work.However you slice it, the least expensive approach is do a good job the first time. Sounds to me like you'll be fine.
You'll save a bunch of money in the long run using the fabric. You won't have to be adding more gravel every year forever.
If blind people wear dark glasses, why don't deaf people wear earmuffs?
1500 feet, 1500 bucks. It'll save you ten times that in headaches later. I placed 12" of bank run gravel over a geotextile base, over an unstable clay loam subsoil. It's hard as a rock, well-drained, and does not get muddy or develop potholes. Believe me, you won't be sorry. There is no good reason not to use fabric.
There is no good reason not to use fabric.
How about nothing soft underneath? That's our situation.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
because the frozen earth won't let water drain downward.
What's the best way to deal with this?
Your answer is right there, in two parts. If the ground is frozen, the water can't go "down." Therefore, it must go "out."
Some of the other posts are on that track, use a better base, and geotek fabric to keep fines out--all of that moves the water away from your driving surface.
"Fines" (meaning the fine particles of soil) are likely the major problem--as use use the word "pudding." That suggests that your gravel surface is mostly "mashed" into the existing topsoil. So, you could put g/t fabric over what's there and put a new run of gravel over that, come the spring--but that would not get you a properly set-up, draining subgrade.
So, maybe the best way to deal with this is not what it looks like. Maybe the best idea is to move the garage 900' down the hill, and get 4-wheelers or electrics to make the run from garage to house.
This may be a tough sell, until you point out the neat 'entertainment' or such similar space the existing garage could become. (Just don't slip how much fun it'd be to have 4x4s or the like <g>.)
Dig the drive up to a depth of 8-12", put in drain tile, then cover with breaker run rock. Finish with a layer of crusher run.
happy?
As many have stated good base, proper drainage, and fabric.
I,ve used fabric on new construction jobs, just to get trucks in and out. I,am talking buried to the axles 4x4 trucks in mud. Pushed the sloop off, fabric, 6" of oversized crushed concrete. Cement trucks, lumber trucks, gravel trains in and out no problem. The stuff works great and worth the cost over the long haul.