A friend sent me this posting in a Help needed site – Craigs List. Heard of it?
Anyway, I thought I would pass it on as an example of unrealistic demands/ expectations. Keep in mind, the site is in NYC. The Apt is on the 3rd flr of a walk-up bldg.
How broke (financially, physically and spiritually) would you be when finished?
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Skilled, Insured, Experienced Contractors Needed to Bid on a Job
Proposal
If you are interested in the following proposal then you should call me, as I would like to start the Job on October 8, 2003 at 7am and work until 6pm, everyday except Sunday. The Budget for this job–750 square foot two bedroom apartment with den) is $15,000 and includes the following by the contractor:
(1) Demolition and Sheet Rock Installation throughout the entire apartment.
Remove all walls and ceilings and install sheetrock 1/2 inch in thickness.
(2) Tape, mud and plaster all ceilings and walls throughout entire 3rd floor apartment.
(3) Replace all outlets and light switches throughout and install new decora finish/or something that I select prior to the work being done. Run New BMX cables for new outlets.Ground all faults.
(4) Remove and replace two existing walls. One wall is a bearing wall and will need a header, 3 beams 2x8x10 and 6 jacks 2x8x10. The other wall must mirror the bedroom wall to which it is attached. (The wall openings that mirror each other one that leads from the LR to the first bedroom and one that leads from the first bedroom to the second bedroom must be replaced with french doors(oak)).
(5) All molding, including baseboard molding throughout the apt must be replaced with oak trim.
(6) Nothing will be done to the wood floors (which go from the LR through to the den) as I will either have them redone or wall-to-wall carpeting installed.
(7) The floors leading from the kitchen through to the front door will be ripped out and covered with wonderboard and over that ceramic tiles of which I will select the color and texture.
(8) The closets will all be newly renovated with sheet rock and the floors will be replaced with the same ceramic tiles as the kitchen.
(9) The bathroom fixtures and floors will remain intact, except that the faucet fixtures on the sink will be replaced with delta faucet replacement faucet and knobs. The clawfoot bathtub will be scraped and refinished on the outside and reglazed on the inside if it is possible to do without damaging the tub itself. A new shower fixture, similar in make but much bigger will replace the old one. The tin ceiling will be pulled down and replaced with green sheetrock. The wainscoting will remain and be cleaned and polyurethaned. The entire bathroom will be retiled as will the small closet behind the bathtub and new doors will be put onto the closet.Install a new bathroom fixture.
(10) Installation of Insulation R-11 will be used on the front and back walls of the apartment.
(11) The kitchen cabinets will be replaced with cabinets that have a glass and wood casing. After sheet rocking the walls and ceilings, a light colored paneling, matching the kitchen cabinets (which have handles) will be used to compliment the kitchen. A back splash will be behind the back wall of the kitchen where the sink, and stove sit. I will select the kitchen cabinets, the back splash and other necessaries for the kitchen. I will order a new stove for the kitchen as well. The other appliances will remain.Kitchen fixture to be replaced.
(12) I will buy and have the contractor install 4 ceiling fans in the den the two bedrooms and the livingroom/dining room area.
(13) Remove the front closet with the sliding doors and extend the wall of the first bedroom wall to that location.
(14) Build new frame in Kitchen/Living Room where wall was removed. Build new frames where wall was removed in LR/First bedroom area and remove and replace old fram where first bedroom and second bedroom meet. Place new french doors, 30 inches wide where in these two latter areas.
(15) Walls will be painted with off white, Benjamin Moore Paint. The oak molding will remain untouched.
(16) All rubbish will removed by contractor and carted away.
(17) Payment will be as follows: at the start of the job the contractor will receive 30%, 1.5 weeks later another 30% will be given to the contractor. A week later, the contractor will receive 20%. At the completion of the job the contractor will receive 20% (all work will be inspected prior to receiving the 20% and must all be in line with building codes. I have my own architect that will come in and see that work is progressing in the standard business fashion).
(18) If you can agree to these terms and are licensed, insured and bonded, then by all means, give me a call at xxx-xxx-xxxx. These are my terms and conditions.
(19) This is a time certain proposal and ultimately a time-certain contract should you, the contractor and I be in agreement.
(20) The job will commence on the 8th of October and will conclude on the 30th of October.
ONLY serious inquiries please. Contractors who are licensed and have references should inquire at the above telephone number. Thank you in advance.
Compensation: $15,000 for the entire job which includes all labor AND materials – unless otherwise noted.
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Har, Har, Har, Har, Har, Har, Har, Har, Har, Har, Har, Har, Har, Har, Har, Har!!!!!
Replies
Before I submit my bid, can you tell me where I can get some of that paneling with handles required for # 11?
Since I'll be coming from Calif to do the job, can I sleep on the floor in the bathroom?
Joe H
And I also want to know why he wanted to ground all of his faults.
The more logical solution would be to romove all of the faults.
BTW. My friend called the HO for kicks and giggles. She, at some point, stated that she had taken a Home Construction Course (yeah, where?) and therefore "knows her stuff" and won't be duped/ hustled by a contractor.
The contractor won't have to do that, she's doing it to herself!! Har, Har, Har!! Oh, my sides are aching!!
Bill, this is how she's getting rid of them--she's grinding them. And if you have any beefs with this contract, they should be ground, too.
Bet she got her "certificate" from University of Home Depot
Ya, she know's her stuff. Helped a friend do a reno on a 3rd floor loft in downtown NYC (Murray Street) ALL the sheetrock had to be 5/8" fire rated and go up the elevator. We probably had 15 grand in parking tickets<G> EliphIno!
man just think about her poor husband, if his johnson isn't a foot long I bet he hears about it every day....
15k for for materials should cover...
But thinkof the experience to be gained.
Guess there's no free lunches on this one and set / clean up is on the contractor.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
worse thing is she/he will get a nobody with a hammer and skill saw and have to hire somebody else 3 months later to redo it all
why do people expect to pay 65 an hour to have their car repaired but want to pay us next to nothing for renovations?
i'd give her a high bid just because customers like that are probably going to be a pain in the azz anywaycaulking is not a piece of trim
Bid it so she wouldn't hire. If she did it would then become worth your while.
That job is doomed
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Come on guys, lets give her the benefit of the doubt. She just forgot to ad one more zero to the price. Then she forgot to say she would ad 15% if completed in that time frame.
What a joke!!
M2akita
With clients like that you JUST WALK AWAY! Not worth the price if you could get what you wanted because they will hagle you to death and bitch abought the work that is not done yet/right.
you know I am just curious, should they not bitch about the work that is not done right?
Look at the time line on that job.
Think of the demo work, framing, electrical, plumbing, drywalling, tape and bedding, flooring, cabinetry, door frames, doors, finish and trim, appliances, painting and staining, hardware, monster job on bathtub that will still look like hell, light fixtures, ceiling fans, and OH YEAH, try to get inspectors in to get permits for all of this at the right times to keep every trade on schedule.
I've been on a few jobs where you are working right on top of the other trades but this nightmare from hell looks so bad I don't know if you could even get enough crews into this little place to even have a shot at finishing this pig on time.
Think of all the men, tools, equipment, materials, demo'd trash all stacked around in this place, and then think of trying to make good time on the work you are doing. GOOD LUCK FELLA!!
I can't think which is sadder, the person trying to get someone to do all this, on this schedule, for this price, or some poor schmuck actually going for this clusterflock.
Cork in Chicago.
I still think it would be fun to watch. Webcams? I might consider subscribing to a web site featuring 24/7 views of this job. Had a boss used to say 'Hire the handicapped. They don't get much done but it's fun to watch.' A bit biased sentiment but in this case apt.
I think you may have something there. Think about it. Whoever contracted this would very shortly realize he is loosing his shirt. The job would be falling further and further behind. He would be loosing more and more money. This poor fellow would be so far out of his mind he wouldn't know which way to jump. He would be jumping all over the trades. The trades would be all over each other fighting for space to set up and work.
The fur would truly be flying. They would have to hire a security guard just to break up all the fist fights. The neighbors would be calling the cops about all the noise, dust and debris. Building management would be trying to shut you down every time someone complains about all the racket. Wicked witch that contracted this out would always be in everybody's way, saying this just won't "do" for her, and trying to countermand the GC.
The list of conflicts and stressed out people would be enough to make a full mini-series.
What a riot!!
Cork in Chicago.
I would say go for it 4Lorn1. Call up couple of TV networks and see if they are interested. You get the production right by securing the job. See you make your money from the TV production.
Wouldn't that just add to the fun? The TV crew will be stepping over everybody else who's already stepping over each other.
there are three ways to do a job. Good, quickly, and cheaply. You can ask for two but dont expect all three. She is expecting all four, the fourth being the imposible.
If interested, make her a counter proposal, point by point.
Time frame, materials spec, kinds of headers, cost, etc.
Oh, don't forget to ask her for references from a bank and others that have done similar work for her and check those well.
You may mention that you took a course on how not to be taken in by HO's and are being careful that no one will do so.;-)
And of course don't forget to tell her she will have to be drug tested, cause you can tell she's HIGH
Clay
Don't know, but $15K per item might bring that job in . . .
As picky as that "simple" job is, $300K would probably just break even. Think of all of the incomplete parts of that specification given. Like dumpster rental & job site parking (read fines/meter cost). Or the real cost of engineering the header, let alone the set up & installation cost. Oh, and did anyone notice a distinct lack of declaration that the contractee had full and complete rights to the space? Just think if the client really is talking about an apartment--not a con-dominium lease/ownership. Get that wall down and be settting the header up into its pocket (as it will have to be flush), and find out you are trespassing on the commons spaces of hte building without permit . . .
No mention of how the newly-tiled closets will be thresholded into the existing wood floor (which is in such a great shape that it will either be finished, or covered in wall-to-wall). If they wall-to-wall, will they still want oak trim with a natural finish? Oops.
Not on a bet would I take on this job and I'm only talking about the electrical side of it. I would however be a great job to keep an eye on. I have a feeling that this is going to make professional wrestling look like Olympic athleticism and Oscar grade acting. It is going to be a train wreck. With a little luck a gloriously huge and tragic train wreck. Is there any way you could monitor it. Maybe sell tickets.
It would, IMHO, be a worthy project to gain free access and the right to observe and photograph, even at a cost. It would make a fine, if a bit nightmarish, series of articles in FHB especially if it could be accompanied by photographs of the pratfalls, antics and misadventures. A dark and cautionary tale of what not to do and how not to do it.
Wow,
Somebody is smoking crack. My sister lives near Central Park and just paid $14,000 for a bathroom.
I went in for a day to put up some crown moulding for her. Would never work for a dime less than $90.00 per hour in that hell hole.
I think we may be judging the situation too harshly. I think the price she is offering is good money and quite reasonable ...
if your on the cheap end of town ...
in Djibouti Ethiopia.
Assuming, of course, she uses local labor, no imported materials and pays all the inspectors off herself, in cash, US dollars.
I think i worked for this lady in 1965 when she had me come over to her house and mow her lawn and when i was done she handed me a quarter , I thought she died but i guess i was wrong Dogboy
Man o Man! I started out working in the trades in NYC 27 years ago and did so for 10 years. Bad enough it's in a city, but NYC?!! Man O Man is all I can say! I would love to see the reaction of this ego silly homeowner from hell if they found out their little ad has been posted here and is being read and guffawed at by professionals across the nation. Being that it's NYC don't you know that some poor schmuck is going to dive head first into this pile of manure. I love NY, but it was such a relief to get away from 'New Yawlkuh's' and their aggressive attitudes, expecially tw*ts like this one. I so want a video of this project.
Thanks for the laugh- i'm sending it to my dad, who owned a small general contracting biz for over 40 years in denver. he'll sh!t.
maybe this woman heard about those habitat for humanity projects where they build a whole house in a day or weekend and figured her little ol' apartment should be no problem in 3 weeks.
m
You have the phone and address of this person, right?
Print this thread and mail it to her. She may get the idea.
Maybe she would like to respond.<G>
---"Maybe she would like to respond.<G>"---
Or read more and be enlightened, expand her horizons past what that one course gave her.
Did many of us HO's sound like that, when first finding out that there is more to building a house than nailing a few boards together?
No wonder GC's "charge so much".<G>