Replies

1. 
   bobl | Dec 13, 2009 08:48pm | #1

   I'm not an
   I'm not an electrician.

   everything downstream from a GFCI is protected by that GFCI (outgoing wires connected to load.)

1. 
   jyang949 | Dec 13, 2009 09:13pm | #2

   I posted my question before taking the outlet apart. Now I see that the switch and outlet are separate units (with a common cover plate). In fact, they are on two different circuits.

   So, I will replace the outlet with a GFCI. Do the switch and wiring for the garbage disposer need any kind of upgrade?

   Janet

   P.S.

   I had a devil of a time finding my original post, because of the changes to the forum. Was the forum broke? Why fix it?

1. 
   calvin | Dec 13, 2009 09:32pm | #3

   Submitted by jyang949 on Sun, 12/13/2009 - 21:13.

   I posted my question before taking the outlet apart. Now I see that the switch and outlet are separate units (with a common cover plate). In fact, they are on two different circuits.

   Janet,

   No kidding, had trouble finding the post? insert smiling grin thing here.

   You understand how one gfci can service other outlets on the same circuit?

   thanks.

1. 
   brucet9 | Dec 13, 2009 10:38pm | #6

   If there is no outlet upstream from your combo switch/outlet, you can find a GFCI combo. I think Cooper makes it [so Lowes might have it], maybe others as well. It's pricey, but much safer than the old ones.

2. 
   gotcha | Dec 14, 2009 08:08am | #8

   Bobl,

   I had to put a GFCI on each side of the sink as my wiring doesn't follow the "everything downstream" rule. I have breakers in the kitchen that connect with outlets in the bedrooms. Real mess to track stuff down.

   Pete

2. 
   DanH | Dec 13, 2009 10:15pm | #4

   Generally anything legal when the place was built is "grandfathered", so you don't have to bring everything up to current code (unless you do a major overhaul of the kitchen). However, in many jurisdictions it's now required to have a least the outlets near the sink on GFCIs in order to legally sell the place. (Just like there are minimal requirements for smoke detectors, etc.)

   So I'd install GFCIs for the outlets near the sink. (But note that these rules aren't generally interpreted to require a GFCI for, eg, an under-sink outlet intended for the garbage disposal.)

   As to the switch/outlet combo, you have two options:

   1) Make sure the outlet is "downstream" from another outlet that is GFCI protected and use the feed-through feature on the GFCI outlet to feed the switch/outlet.

   2) Use a GFCI breaker to protect the entire circuit.

   (Well, there is the third option of cutting in a double box so that you can accommodate both a full-size switch and a GFCI. Not really that difficult, but small, impressionable children should be kept out of earshot while you're doing it.)

3. 
   brucet9 | Dec 13, 2009 10:34pm | #5

   DanH has suggested that you make sure that all the outlets downstream from a GFCI will be protected as well.

   When you wire the GFCI, be careful that you connect the downstream wires to the protected back-wired connection, not the line connection, which is a by-pass and not protected. Read the directions carefully.

   Also, you will find that the connections on GFCI outlets are Back-Wired type [not the same as back-stab] that are faster to connect than bending the wire around the terminal screws and make at least as good a connection.

   Be sure that you first loosen the terminal screw then hold it firmly to the body of the outlet before you stick the wire into the hole in back. When you tighten the screw it will clamp the wire firmly to the inner contacts.

4. 
   btuftee | Dec 13, 2009 11:54pm | #7

   The original post included a question of where GFCI outlets are required. In the current 2008 NEC, art. 210.8 describes required GFCI locations. Under subsection (A)(6) it reads: "Kitchens - where the receptacles are installed to serve the countertop surfaces". Also, 210.8(A)(7) might be stretched to imply that any outlet within 6 feet of a sink needs GFCI protection (and it's probably not a bad idea, unless it's a fridge).

   You would not generally need GFCI protection for an outlet serving a fridge, microwave, disposer, etc. So, one can have outlets in a kitchen without GFCI protection. In fact, one would probably not want the fridge on a GFCI outlet - if it trips and no one notices, you've got spoiled food.