My just-installed glue lam is separating along one of the seams. The building supply company has been little help so I’m wondering: What’s the best way to fix this? Should I just epoxy the crack? So far the separation runs 12 feet of the total 17 feet length.
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Replies
Sounds like the lumber yard left it sitting out in the rain, the installer didn't bother trying to pick out a piece that was unexposed, and now it's delaminating.
C*** I hate this sloppy sh!t.
Contact the manufacturer. I suspect they'll tell you to rip it out, ow all bets are off as far as they're concerned.
Edited 12/9/2005 9:25 am ET by Taylor
The building supply place delivered it to the house and placed it on the lawn. It was in a wrapper. We had it moved to our driveway and put up on 2x4s so it wasn't directly on the ground. It sat outside (no rain) for 2-3 days, I can't remember. Could this have caused the problem?
I should mention that the wrapper wasn't complete sealed... the end was ripped open.
Edited 12/9/2005 9:32 am ET by Samstap
Having a glulam sit outside for 2 or 3 days wouldn't cause it to delaminate. Neither would having the end of the wrapper open.
Q: Why don't Italians like Jehovah's Witnesses?
A: Because Italians don't like any witnesses.
Q: Why don't Italians like Jehovah's Witnesses?A: Because Italians don't like any witnesses.
Now that is funny. ---------------------
Swimming through the ashes of another life, no real reason to accept the way things have changed. Wrapped in guilt, sealed up tight.
I couldn't be a Jehovah's Witness. I didn't see the accident. ;-)
-- J.S.
I agree, it doesn't sound normal at all. Sounds like it may have been defective from the git-go but it took loading for the problem to appear. In new frames our LVL's can see weather for up to a couple months somtimes if the frame is large enough. Not direct weather, but still exposed.
Good advice with getting a manufacturer's rep out to have a peek.
The bldg supply store manager is coming to take a picture of it this afternoon and will then contact the manufacturer. I described the problem over the phone and he said he thought it wasn't a big deal, since the split is above the hanging joists. But if one section can come delaminated, then any or all of them can, and I'd never see it happening until the roof fell in.
So I should insist on replacement, yes/no?
So I should insist on replacement, yes/no?
I'm sorry, but I can't answer that from here. A "replacement" may mean that they will supply a new beam and you would be out the cost of demo and reinstallation. If a replacement is not necessary then this would be a crazy decision, of course.
Wait and see what they're prescription is. If you are still unsure, you can look in the Yellow Pages for your own structural engineer. I've had one come out and access a situation a couple times. $400.00 and he turns around with a stamped opinion of the situation as well as a remedy for repair, if necessary. It's always been worth it.
Also, even if there is something wrong with the beam, there's always a chance that it can be repaired in place. There's big strong screws available now that are made specifically for laminating multiple 1 3/4" LVLs into bigger beams on site. It's possible that something like this could fix your situation. That'd be great because it's a cheap, easy, permanent fix. Would sure beat the heck out of swapping a flush framed beam out.
Wait and see what the rep says. If you don't like/trust his opinion, then I would pursue other avenues.
Be sure and let us know how this situation plays out. Do you have any way of posting a digital picture of the beam in question to the site?
I'll take pictures this afternoon and post them, and will let you know what the rep says. Thanks!
"...he said he thought it wasn't a big deal, since the split is above the hanging joists."
That has absolutely nothing to do with it.
I look forward to the pics and hearing what the manufacturer's rep has to say.
Vengeance is lawful and virtuous so far as it tends to the prevention of evil. [Thomas Aquinas]
Here are some photos of the crack. Hope they're not too large.
The rep won't be here until tomorrow so no news to report on that front yet.
The house was built in 1934... keep that in mind when you view the picture of the attic.
Thanks for the pics - You did a nice job of documenting the problem. On the positive side, the crack appears to only go 1/3 of the way through the beam. But the factory rep will still have to take info on the loading of the beam and have an engineer evaluate it. It could go either way...
Gridlock is not an American problem, it is an American achievement. [George Will]
I had my nomenclature mixed up. I was picturing a delaminating LVL. We don't see many glulams around here, but that doesn't look good. From my untrained eye it looks almost certain to be defective since it's seperating right at one of the laminations.
What a drag. Looks like a heck of a project to swap out too.
I did the exact same thing...I'm too used to thinking of all engineered beams as LVLS!Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
BossHog, you hit the nail on the head. While not good, it almost appears that the "delamination" may not be quite as serious as to require a replacement if the split is only to the center of that tree in the middle board. :-)
I agree with BossHog. This appears to be a manufacturing problem, but nothing that cannot be fixed....that's not a mistake, it's rustic
On a side note... get those wire nuts in a junction box huh?
I hope things go well for you tomorrow with the rep.
Turns out the glulam was installed upside down. It says "TOP" (along with a lot of other stuff) right along the bottom edge that's visible from inside the house. Looks like we're going to have to have it flipped over... the camber is probably causing the delamination because it wants to bend downward in the middle. Apparently, if we were to go ahead and have it sheetrocked, even if the split was repaired, we could experience a sagging ceiling over time.
We're awaiting instructions from the manufacturer about repairing the split, which is something we'll still need to do once it's turned rightside up.
Thanks for letting us know how it turned out. I don't buy the idea that the delamination is being caused by being installed upside-down, though. That sounds like BS they're slinging to get out of paying for the repair.
Never argue with a woman when she's tired — or rested.
Looking at the amount of work it'll take to flip that sucker over, I'd be inclined to replace it with a new one. That way you get rid completely of the de-lamination issue, and all it takes is the price of the stick, plus schlepping it up there.
-- J.S.
We'd also have to pay to take the old one down... by far, the installation labor is the biggest expense in the project.
I'm trying to get the manufacturer's rep to tell me how to fix the delamination. I'm not entirely opposed to replacing the thing and will do that if he says it can't be fixed.
I would love to hear from anyone who has experience and a strong opinion here.
> We'd also have to pay to take the old one down...
Or have them leave it up there. You could go up with a recip saw and bring it down yourself in firewood size chunks.
-- J.S.
it looks more like the crack was never really a crack, ie that the 2 X was not flat and didn't mate with the one above when it was made, if I'm seeing the grain on the end the center of that 2 X dimension would expand vertically while the width would contract .. do you know for sure the crack wasn't there in the first place?
on the fix, could you not set the new beam on top of the existing and nail plates or scabs on the sides to join them .. hell of allot easier, and stronger, than getting the old one out?
> on the fix, could you not set the new beam on top of the existing and nail plates or scabs on the sides to join them .. hell of allot easier, and stronger, than getting the old one out?
Good idea! That, or sister the existing one. It would be a whole lot easier than removing and replacing it. A solution that leaves the existing piece in place and strengthens it would save a lot of labor. This is so non-standard, though, that it would have to be designed by an engineer.
-- J.S.
Good idea!
Absolutely yes, if the manager of that building supply house doesn't think that a defective product should be replaced, you should consider finding a new place to buy supplies.
That manager should replace the product, then take the respsonsibility for dealing with the manufacturer. As long as it hasn't been months and months since you bought the thing...I guess that would complicate it.
If nothing else, you should probably replace the glulam - doesn't make sense to try to ignore something that will make you worry the rest of your life.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
I wouldn't take any chances with it. A 12' crack is not remotely normal for a glulam.
As Taylor said, check with the manufacturer. They have reps who deal with just such problems. It could be that yours is defective and they will replace it.
If only I can get the building supply place to call me back, maybe I can find out who the manufacturer is. (insert sarcastic tone of voice)
So I should be prepared to bear the cost of removing it and installing a new one? In your opinion?
How expensive are glum lams? Sorry for you potential loss here, just curious.
The way the math works on this is that if a single beam is separated on a horizontal plane into two equal height pieces, the resulting strength is half of what it was supposed to be.
So, you should take this seriously. The lumber yard and manufacturer should also take it very seriously, and get it fixed right on their nickel. If they don't, and it fails, you have a slam dunk jackpot lawsuit.
Can you see any printing on the glulam? Do you still have the wrapper in the dumpster? From that you should be able to find out who made the glulam.
-- J.S.
"...if a single beam is separated on a horizontal plane into two equal height pieces, the resulting strength is half of what it was supposed to be."
With glulams, it isn't that simple. Some manufacturers use higher grades of lumber in the top and bottom pieces, and lower/less dense ones in the center.
So what you end up with may be all but worthless...
The great man does not think beforehand of his words that they may be sincere, nor of his actions that they may be resolute -- he simply speaks and does what is right. [Menciu]
Thanks, I didn't know that. So they're sort of like I-joists, but with a thick web. That makes a lot of sense.
-- J.S.
Me, I'd be unhappy about it, but wouldn't do anything about it. Looks pretty dang big anyways.