glueing cedar….exterior/load bearing
JeffBuck
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
I may have a project coming up that’ll “bridge” an extrance into a house….
plan may call for 1×6 cedar laminated into a gently curved beam to support the walkway/bridge.
I think I read somewhere cedar is hard to glue.
All i’ve ever glued up before was 1x stock for planters…….just used exterior titebond. Still holding up after a coupla years outside…..
But..this one’s actually gotta hold some weight.
The supports will be way oversized for the right look……so the wood will be plenty strong…..I just gotta make sure the glue will hold up and the curved laminates will stay laminated and curved till I grow old and die.
Which exterior glue to spec?
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery…..While U Waite
Replies
3m marine adhesive 9.50 a tube at home depot, give the back a swipe of acetone to clean up any oil's. that oughtta do it. spring is coming enjoy the weather... jeff......cheers
Jeff,
Can't go wrong with West System. Perfect chance to stock your shop.
http://www.westsystem.com/
KK
Jeff,
I made my parents two Adirondack (sp?) chairs out of western red cedar about 3 years ago, and used only gorilla glue to hold the seat and back slats in place, kinda an experiment to see if it would hold and also didn't want visible holes in the face for the slats.
They have lived through 2 years of all seasons in St Louis and about 9 months in Houston, they have gotten there fair share of snow/and wet and when I was there a few weeks ago, the slats haven't moved.
I don't know if its good for a structural glue, but it can certainly hold up in the weather based on the chairs.
Good luck Neil
Cornelous Four
I think Gorilla glue could hold the earth together if we had big enough clamps.
Be together
Namaste
andy
"Understanding yourself is like trying to bite your own teeth"
Alan Watts
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Cornel I ous IV
, you forgot the I :)
Maybe we should take the leading prowar advicate and leading antiwar advocate glue um' up with some gorilla glue until they find a compramise lol.
At any rate it could make a funny a video.View ImageGo Jayhawks
Maybe we should take the leading prowar advicate and leading antiwar advocate glue um' up with some gorilla glue until they find a compramise lol.
At any rate it could make a funny a video.
Cornelious Four,
A boxing match tween their best and our best gorilla glued together. Three pair out of five in a cage on HBO would rock.
I kinda wished The Sad Man and Dubya would have had that debate that Saddam asked for. Sure would have been interesting as long as they both had their hidden ear pieces in.
Be hidden
Namaste
andy one
"Understanding yourself is like trying to bite your own teeth"
Alan Watts
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
made part of a cedar fence using gorilla glue. A section fell over while I was working on it. Seperated on a seam glued with the gorilla glue. seperated like there was no glue therebobl Volo Non Voleo Joe's BT Forum cheat sheet
jeff, i've used West & Gorilla... west would be my first choice.. i really like gorilla, but the odds of success increase with the epoxy
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
this is to be a foot bridge spanning about 12 ft.....about 10 ft above the ground below.....
so more is gooder.
I'll look into the west sys stuff.
Thanks to all.
Should be a fun project if it gets the green light. Driveway is only about 10" or so lower than the door threshold...right now..they have a basic 2x4 ramp.
House is very contemporary...deserves a more inspiring entry.
The curved bridge with exposed framing that can be seen from the garden below....along with a double curved iron rail that the designer sketched out would be much more impressive.
Jeff
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
I like Gorilla but it's not for this.
It can be hurt by UV rays exterior when nor painted.
It is particular sometimes about what it sticks to, Cedar is one of them that raises questions - not all the time but enough to make me stay aaway for this.
It tends to be brittle in some kinds of applications - and the stresses I can imagine in this would be likely to challenge it.
When I glue up curved railes from red cedar, I have been using West system Epoxy or plain old Titebond 11 but the laminator has talked me out of using it that way. He has something else he recommends for curved stairs..
Excellence is its own reward!
Expoxy also needs to be painted or have pigments in it to protect it from UV degration.
However, for joints I don't UV being a problem with either one. The wood would have to break down before you got an significate UV into the glue joint.
But still I think that I would also use epoxy for this.
You're here asking us how to glue lumber for a 12' bridge where falling will be ...
The structural components need to be approved by your building inspector. They should be approved by an engineer. They are more able to instruct you in the proper glue than we are.
don't need no stinking train driver to tell me how to glue a small ramp.
and I'd bet wood butchers around here know a bit more about the glue-up characteristics of cedar than any engineer around......
and that's the only question...the glue.
the supports for the foot bridge will be oversized to the point where ya can park a car on it.....for appearance sake....... No need for an engineer at all.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
I hope your inspector likes you.
Jeff, very well written, not only did I like the words I read, I saw the truth in them. Be Safe out there, Jim J
are you new to this kinda work, George?
Inspector like or dislike has nothing to do with it. You think he's gonna take a glue sample back to the lab and send the CSI team back with the results? Maybe the city engineer will offer pager of in depth data?
We're building a simple walkway here....
the question revolved around the glue up characterists of a particular wood. I've edge glued cedar many times successfully with Titebond 2. I'd stake my rep on using that same glue again...and I'm sure it would be just fine...but looks like those in the know say West Systen is even better.
And "even better"....is even better.
Now we have an overbuilt structure glued with "even better" glue.
Where's the beef? Where's the need for the engineer to drive out and say....I dunno..I don't glue #### up ...I look stuff up in charts and graphs...
Let me guess....you are an engineer?
Second guess....you are a computer programer...
Let me know....
What'd I win?
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
To answer your question: I am an engineer.
For the problem at hand. The building code does not have a "standard" for gluing. So you need permission for the alternative construction.
You ask the building inspector what he will allow (in my word "wants"). You work out something with him.
As for this being a simple walkway. It is not. It is a 12' bridge, if I remember right. The title of this post was "load bearing." Enough said.
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As for asking an engineer. Around here, I give a lot of people free advice. I expect that other engineers do so also. In addition, I can call the AHJ and ask him to approve the plans.
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As for the glues and epoxies recommended. A lot of boat builders have problems when they first use glues/epoxies in locations that cycle through wet and dry. I expect this fellow will also.
U say U give lotsa free advice around here...
So...what gives?
You know it's cedar.....you know it's a foot bridge. Size reall shouldn't matter....as I've stated it'll be overbuilt for balanced appearance.
The curved beams will be 1x6......laminated.
Proposed glue is West System. Inner ply's I'm guessing will be screwed....face ply's just glued.
Slight curve.....formed on a ply jig in the driveway.
So what's the glue?
No nailing/screwing schedule. Inspector won't care.......he like's me.
Just glue.
And....where did your info come from?
Personal experience......book of construction standards.......engineering school somewhere along the way......other?
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
You don't really expect a response from GeorgeR after you calling him a stinking train driver, do you?
I wanna know, how many elephants will be dancing on this bridge anyways.
You gotta parade permit? How 'bout a carnival license? Man are you gonna be in trouble now....
Excellence is its own reward!
the homeowners are strict democrats.
the GC and me are the only republicans around.....so more donkeys than elephants.
it has made for pretty interresting war talk.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
I agree with the guys on using West System Epoxy. The cost of the material (approx. $60.00 gal) far out weighs any other product. All the boat builders I know swear by it and now it is being use by canoe builders. Sound like this job is big enough to warrant a little extra expense.