I’ve just started researching table saws. For the last year I’ve been cutting everything with a Festool plunge saw and rail system. It’s great for large sheets, but for repeated cuts (trim, drawers) it’s very time-consuming. I’ve got a lot of trim and built-ins to do in the near future (cottage in back yard for mom), and I need to be able to make good cuts more efficiently.
Whatever it is, I need to fit the saw through a 32″ door and down some stairs into my basement, so a cabinet saw probably won’t work. I don’t have a 220V outlet, but have plenty of space on the panel, and can easily wire one.
I’ll probably still use the Festool to trim down large stock, so I don’t need a huge saw. I do want something that is stable and good quality (i.e., I’d like it to still be around after 10 years of moderate use). I need to make clean cuts in hard material, like Paperstone and butcher block. I don’t want to spend $1,000 if I don’t have to, but that’s my top limit (including any after-market parts, like a new fence).
I’m going to stop in a couple local places this weekend and see what they have, but I’d certainly appreciate any advice from experienced folks here. Thanks!
Replies
I have a delta contractor saw. I think they are around $600. Plus add ons - fences etc.
Got it about 16 years ago when i had a smaller shop. The original plan was to upgrade to a cabinet saw and use the one I have on larger jobsites. Never got around to upgrading, so far this saw will keep up with some pretty large cab projects. Alot of the guys I network with have cabinet saws, and i have used them, and probably will still get one. But this saw keeps fitting the bill.
Ripping 2X goes a little slower, but i don't do it all that often.
YMMV.
Just my 2 cents.
Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
I really like my Bosch 4100 with folding stand. It's meant to be a worksite saw (i.e take it with you in your pickup) but i use it in my basement only. Runs on 115 V, has a dust port (which is nice for your basement) and a 4 hp motor. It's really nice.
..and it will fit through your 32" door...which is probably closer to 31.5" if you account for the door stops.
http://www.boschtools.com/Products/Tools/Pages/BoschProductCategory.aspx?catid=25
Edited 4/19/2008 9:11 am ET by Chucky
I have one, It's 15amp though.
I think you meant it's 4horse.
I'm with you. I pre cut my big sheets within an inch then finish them on the table. The 4100 is one good saw.
I used the same method until I got the Festool TS55EQ. Now I cut to my specs on the big sheets in the garage before I move to the shop in the basement. I should have done this years ago. I probably wasted enough wood to pay for the Festool, not to mention the convenience.
Some mention about Delta 10" contractor table saws. What will really give them a boost in performance is rewire them up for 240V. The motors are 120/240. With a good fence, blade and outfeed tables you will have a decent saw.
I agree.
I keep telling myself to upgrade, but can't find a good reason.Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City
I have the same set up and use the Festool 55 to rip down sheet stock. Works great for me. I just make sure that the blades are very sharp and I've had it since 1993 or 1994,...can't remember which. I'd love to have a reason to get a powermatic 66 or similar, but I can't justify it..mine works fine."The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a governmental program" -Ronald Reagan
randall
I first bought a Delta contractors saw.. they were common and I got what I thought was a good deal..
However they do have some real weaknesses.. To cut a long story as short as possible I had the factory rep out a couple of times tried to fix it myself too many times to count..
In the end I wound up giving it away after I couldn't sell it.. that's right giving it away!
I bought a Grizzly to replace it and have been happy ever since..
The deal on Grizzly is it's made in the same place that Delta's are but instead of being sold through middle men they sell direct..
That's why the Price on Grizzly is low.
I have 11 major pieces from Grizzly now and they have all worked fine right out of the box.. the one exception was when the shipping crate had been badly smashed and arrived in splinters..
I called Grizzly and told them.. they asked me what would it take to fix everything.. I told them the parts and the next morning the parts were at my door.. no pictures or forms or anything.. parts arrived.. plus they told me if it didn't repair it to my satisfaction I could ship it back and they would ship me out a replacement..
It took me maybe 30-40 minutes to replace the broken castings etc. and since then it's been flawless!that's 7 years!
In fact in 7 years and 40,000 bd.ft. I have replaced one fan belt.. my local NAPA parts store had it in stock and it took me less than 10 minutes to replace!
Go to http://www.Grizzly .com and check out their prices..
Edited 4/19/2008 10:52 am ET by frenchy
Got a Delta miter saw and found out it was made in Taiwan. Is that where Grizzly is made? Do you know who does the engineering and specs for Grizzly?
I've shied away from Grizzly because it was made in 'who knows why' by 'who knows who'.
Your info sheds a new light on Grizzly.
JIMMIEM
They are both made in Tiawan supposedly on the same street using many of the same sources for parts. (I don't know that. It's merely what I've heard)
The differance is I believe in the standard they are both built to. I can't say about Delta anymore I've stopped buying them. However the stuff from Grizzly has been virtually flawless and I highly recommend them.. (no, I don't have any connection to them I used to sell construction forklifts not table saws)
Thank You.
When I got a Delta miter saw I called Delta, I believe they were in Tennessee, and spoke to a product engineer. My initial question had to do with the use of metric bolts on the machine and he told me about Taiwan. He said American engineers did the design and spec work and were stationed in the factories but that the workers were Taiwanese. Saw has performed very well. I've seen lots of Grizzly ads in mags ans just might give them a try.
Thanks again.
Randall, $1000 will buy you a used Unisaw and nuff change for some good accessories & blades.
Craigslist.org, local free advertising papers, wherever junk gets sold in your hood. Ebay has lots of them, find one close by.
Take the table off, and the motor and it'll go downstairs without a problem.
Contractor saws don't compare to a cabinet saw, you'll be kicking yerself in the butt forever if you buy that instead of the saw you want.
I'd go measure my $300 Unisaw, but I'll guess instead, maybe 26" square for the cabinet alone.
Joe H
You didn't mention if it needs to be portable (after use in the basement). If not, I cast a vote for a used Unisaw. There's no substitue for a 3HP 10" saw with a good fence. I have one that's made it through several 32" doors over the two decades. You just remove the table extension and it will fit. My last set of movers were very unhappy it fit when they hauled it into my basement shop. :-)
Buying used tools can be a little tricky, but if the table is reasonably clean of pits and rust, then the odds are that the motor and trunnions are also in decent shape.
If it needs to be portable, then do a search on the contractor saws used here. $1000 will buy quite a lot of contractor's saw, but not much in a new cabinet saw. Given that you spent the money to become a Festooligan, you already know what to look for in quality.
Edited 4/19/2008 12:39 pm ET by WindowsGuy
Like has been suggested I'd look for a used Unisaw on craigslist or in the local paper.
If you can't find one, we bought a Grizzly Hybrid, forget the actual model number, set it up with the extension table and mobile base, it's a good little saw.
I haven't had any problems with it and it's been a little over a year.
Most cabinet saws actually have a smaller footprint than a contractor's saw- the motor is inside the cabinet and not hanging off the rear as in a contractors saw. Also dust collection is far better with a cabinet saw, something to consider if it's going to be in the basement. More power with a cabinet saw too- 3 or 5hp vs the 1 1/2 or 2 of a contractor saw as well as more rugged and robust trunion. Nothing wrong with a contractor saw; over the years I've has a couple of Deltas and they served me well but I think over the long run you'd be better served by a cabinet saw- it will probrably the last saw you buy. Given your budget I'd look at Grizzly G1023S or SL for a new machine- they will bust your budget by about $100 or so. The other alternative is a used machine, Check Craig's List, EBay, etc ............ you can sometimes find a good clean Uni or other cabinet saw within your budget. One other possibility is a hybrid saw. Most are basically a contractor saw with a full cabinet and are priced between a contractor and cabinet models-$700-1000 range. Least expensive is a contractors saw. The Delta contractor saw can be had with a Unifence or Biesmeyer fence as well as the less expensive T2 and have a buit in mobile base. Their biggest weakness is dust collection.
Get the Ridgid TS 3650.
Take the parts downstairs and then assemble the saw. You can get it if you hurry before the sale ends. I think it goes for about $450 with the current tool promotion.
Their portable is also excellent and included in the promotion. It includes a very good stand with wheels.
Randall
I agree with Sasquatch, I like the look of the Rigid also, the solid cast side extensions seem like a good idea. For a while Rigid and Craftsman parts where interchangable, Talked to a Rigid engineer once, he said that the first products where made in the old Emerson factory, which is where Craftsmen where made then Craftsmen went over seas, and rigid brought emerson power tool at least. Rigid is probably there now . I put the Rigid fence on my craftsman saw and love it, It was sold for a while as an extra, now the Rigid saw comes with it. The three year warranty is worth considering too. If their is no need to bring it any where else just assemble it downstairs as Sasquatch said. Also it comes with the mobile base now which I added to my sears, read the reviews on the HD web site http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100007962&N=10000003+90076+1600#reviewsI am thinking of the Rigid joiner I just like the looks of it, think it has a 6" Delta beat.Wallyo
3rd that I love the ridgid
Look ma, no jigs!!!
"rigid brought emerson power tool at least. Rigid is probably there now"Not exactly. Emerson is large corporation that owns a number of brands.That includes among many many others Copland (AC compressors), InSinkerator, Knaack, WeatherGuard, White Rogers, and Ridgid. Most of the other brands are industrial or OEM.Ridgit Tool company made and still makes a large line of plumbing equpment including threaders, drain cleaing machines and now locating and inspection equipment.When they lost the Sears contract that division "borrowed" the Ridgit name for the products that they used to make for Sears.And they continued to make them for a while.Then they worked up an agreement with TTI (parent company of Ryobi and Milwaulkee and others). It is not clear what the relationship is. between TTI and Emerson.Emerson still makes the Ridgit, Craftsman wet/dry vacs alonw with GoClean and Dirt Hound brands..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Thank BillI knew it was something like that, all I remember is him telling me that Emerson had this empty factory ( after losing sears) they were going to close down, with all the tooling and rigid jumped at it. Could not remember exactly how he put it but he made it sound as though Rigid brought the Emerson factory and wood power tool name. Your memory seems a bit clearer then mine.Wallyo
Bill, you forgot to mention they used to put out an impressive calendar too.
Long gone........
Joe H
I was so distressed by your post that I searched Rigid Tool calendar. It still exists. You can buy one on line.John
always preferred the Snap On calendars myself.
Calendars aren't what they used to be...........
Joe H
Just thought smoeone might want the URL.http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/Calendar
Boobs can make 6 month old baby and a 65 year old man both act the same way. [Bill Engvall]
Actually TTI does not own Ryobi. Ryobi is a Japanese company and TTI is Chinese. Technically TTI makes many tools for Ryobi and they own the right to distribute tools for the Ryobi brand in North America. TTI may own the Ryobi facilities in North America too.TTI appears to make most of the profit from production and sales of Ryobi tools sold in NA, not sure how much money goes to the Japanese.I have a nice Milwaukee 15ga nailer that is the same as the Ridgid, both made by TTI just in different colors.
As long as portability isn't an issue, I'll cast one more vote for a used Unisaw, Powermatic, General, or any good quality cabinet saw. They are sweet to use. The Beismeyer fence is an excellent upgrade if you're cutting lots of wide stock.
I've got a 1950s vintage Unisaw. You can place a glass of water on the table when it's running and there are no ripples. It's my favourite tool....until I have to move it.
Scott.
Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.â€
In fact you might want to fill in your profile, particularly with location.
I, for instance, have a spare LVC Unisaw with a new Biesemeyer fence. Under $1k with blades, since I found a 12/14 I like better."I am a perfect ahole" Sphere 4/13/08
RandallHave you made any decision as to which saw. HD is running a promo that would give a Hundred off ends April 30. The joiner I want would be 60 off it is on a sliding scale, spend a thousand it would be 150. off.Wallyo
I have the Bosch portable tables saw with the folding stand on wheels. I use it for heavy cutting and finish work. I absolutely love it.
Definitely the used Unisaw. I have the one my grandfather bought before WWII, with a new motor and Biesemeyer fence. Unfortunately, it's in storage since there's no room for a shop at the new house.
Here's the best source of info on such saws, and maybe a lead on buying one:
http://www.owwm.com/
-- J.S.
Just a heads up; Be fore warned that you are full of it and even though your setup has worked for you for 15 years - You are wrong. You should have gotten a Grizzly.
Because Frenchy disagrees with you. When you try to tell someone your point of view ( that you are happy with your setup ) your post will be reffered to the moderators, And you will recieve a silly email from Robyn Aitken that tells you basically that Frenchy and BOB run this forum and if they cry you're gone.
Before you try to help out here you may want to check with Robyn so that she can check with her bosses ( Frenchy and BOB) to see if it's ok for you to have an opinion.
And god forbid you have anything to do with me.
Say what?
"I am a perfect ahole" Sphere 4/13/08
????? sorry ..I lost ya on that one!!
"The nearest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth is a governmental program" -Ronald Reagan
I liked Cool Hand Luke. Didn't end well. You sure?
Look for that Pearson ~ Memorial Day. I'm the old grizzled guy.
"I am a perfect ahole" Sphere 4/13/08
J
Your cracking me up here!
The two set me up, then ran to the teacher.
How'd you let them do that? You know what they're going to do and then you let them do it!
They kicked me out of the tavern,
And how is that a bad thing?
And now that I'm bitchen about it on the regular forum, In the last hour I've been baited by one of them already.
Again, you know what's coming and you let them do it? Man up and don't let em get under your skin. Isn't it Dovetail that has the tag, "they cant get your goat if you don't tell them where it is" good advice.
Doug
This about that idiot crrap of engines blowing up on the intake stroke?
Made about as much sense as his story about timing chains in a V12 Jag.
Joe H
You must buy a Sawstop, screw your budget.
Ask my left hand, the one with the misssing left index tip, middle and ring finger scars.
Please,
Kowboy
Randal,
You have the saw and the rails.
What you need is a good table with a good fence and a bridge that you don't have to lift your saw off the rails every time you cut.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bf8H3tK6PBE
Why go for a tablesaw when you can transform your saw and rails into a Bridge saw?
david
Rez, Why we build bridges?
Woodworkers Supply of Albuquerque, NM is the sole stateside distributor of the Woodtek line of stationary power tools.
Woodtek machines are made in Taiwan, as are most of all the competitors such as Delta, Jet, Powermatic, etc.
A Woodtek contractors table saw with cast iron extensions would be an excellent choice for you. Available in both left-tilt and right-tilt models, the saws have good features, large motors, and can be wired to run on 220V supply.
The Woodtek saw, 6" jointer, and one of their sanding tools were all used and endorsed by the TOH crew, including Norm Abrams, when they did one of their TV show remodels about a dozen years ago.
If you can make it into one of Woodworkers' showrooms (Albuquerque, Casper, WY, or Graham, NC) you can see and use one of these saws. The sales people and tech support folks at Woodworkers are as good as they come.
These are not portable saws as are the Ryobis, the DeWalts, and the Bosch units likely touted in this thread by others (I have not read through the thread, but am assuming.) Weighing in at more or less 250 pounds, these are stable, heavy shop saws, and will provide heavier duty cutting and excellent accuracy, as one would demand from a saw in this class.
Here is a pic of the right tilt model.
View Image
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"A stripe is just as real as a goddamn flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985