What’s the word on Goodman HVAC units? Are they any good? How do they compare in performance and longevity to other name brands like Rudd, Rheem,Trane…I know they are a few hundred bucks cheaper.
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They are a quality, no frills equivalent to the higher priced alternatives. The 13 SEER unit, the CLT series, has a lifetime compressor warranty and a 10 year parts warranty. Check out Trane, Carrier, York, Ruud and Lennox and see if they have anything better. The only blemish on the Goodman name is, because of they're low prices, they are the preferred brand of hacks and DIY's and more often than not victims of poor installation.
I sell HVAC equipment, including Goodman and a "premium" brand. The new furnace, coil and AC I installed in my home last year is a Goodman. I also sell parts, do warranty repairs, train technicians and design HVAC systems from time to time. I sell as many or more parts for the premium brand as I do the Goodman equipment, and I sell 4 times the volume of Goodman. Most of the Goodman parts are due to contractor abuse and/or improper installation.
Hey Tim,
Not to hijack your thread but thanks for the Goodman info, as my HVAC sub installed a Goodman unit in my parents' vacation home, and I questioned myself as to whether or not it was a quality, reliable unit.
I know now. Thanks!Jason Pharez Construction
Framing & Exterior Remodeling
Goodman was on the bottom (WORST) IN LAST YEARS CONSUMER REPORTS SURVEY OF 500,000 OR WHATEVER SUBSCRIBERS ON THEIR HVAC SYSTEMS - THE REAL QUESTION IS WAS it due to poor installation or due to poor "parts". I can not answer that.
What percentage of those surveyed had Goodman equipment compared to the others?
Goodman usually = "builders special". Lemme tell ya, builders aren't allowing squat for a good quality HVAC install around here. The builders get what they pay for and the homeowner gets screwed (but I bet that wasn't in their survey).
Consumer reports is useless when it comes to certain products, home HVAC is one. A survey done (commissioned) by the six major manufacturers of residential furnaces/air conditioners indicated that 80% of home owners surveyed could not name the brand of their equipment, of the 20% that could list a "brand" half of those said "Honeywell", ie., the name on the thermostat.
I worked in a stereo store in the late '70s and there was a constant stream of people coming in, clutching their new copy of Consumer Report (CS, which we had a different name for) and asking for brands or models that we knew either sucked or blew up in large numbers but were highly recommended by CS. These people just didn't want to listen and eventually learned their lesson. When Sansui was making their worst stuff, one of the guys answered a phone call-Q- "Hello, do you repair Sansui?"
A- "All the time."Most people won't care about this kind of thing unless they're buying it or until it breaks. Any other time, they don't know or care. Consumer Reports still doesn't factor in some of the most important things- How long will it last and how easy is it to get repaired?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Consumer Reports still doesn't factor in some of the most important things- How long will it last and how easy is it to get repaired?
Most of the stuff that Consumer Reports reports on doesn't get repaired, it gets tossed. Exception being vehicles.
They do have their reliability meters, but that is dependant on reader feedback.
jt8
"Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
I find that Consumer Reports is dead wrong about most things I know something about. So I don't trust them regarding things I don't know much about.
-- J.S.
Did you get your Goodman from Johnstone Supply?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
"Did you get your Goodman from Johnstone Supply?"
No, Ferguson Heating & Cooling.
The Goodman will get the job done.
Yup, some parts may be cheaper than the name brands to meet a price point. However, most of those parts can be sourced DIY- try that with some of the others you mentioned.
About 99% of the "quality" in a HVAC job is the installation. If there isn't any quality there, the best brands in the business are garbage.
>>Yup, some parts may be cheaper than the name brands to meet a price point. However, most of those parts can be sourced DIY- try that with some of the others you mentioned.>>About 99% of the "quality" in a HVAC job is the installation. If there isn't any quality there, the best brands in the business are garbage.Which is a godd reason to avoid parts sourced (and installed by a DYI)EWIW, I know a fair amount about furnaces and am trained in CO and combustion analysis.I hire a trained tech to service mine.
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Plenty of "pro's" out there that don't know what they are doing, either.
>>Plenty of "pro's" out there that don't know what they are doing, either.Boy, is that ever thre truth.Met with one yesterday who thought that he could prove a furnace was drafting properly by blowing out a match to make smoke, and blowing it into the draft diverter.Wow! Smoke goes the way you blow it!
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Sojourners: Christians for Justice and Peace
Our church has two Goodman package three phase A/C units for sale. I think 3 1/2 and 5 ton. We had a flat roof and put on a gable roof and went to split heat pumps. They are about 10 yrs old but only ran about 1 hour per week during the a/c season. They did a good job for us. As said they are no-frills.
Installed a Goodman 4T CPLT with AEPT60 at son's house 2 years ago, almost paid for itself over the gas already, no big problems* with it. Put one on Mom's house in IL also, no significant problems**, that one did pay for itself in 2 years with the power company rebate. Both have scroll compressors.
Since others already mentioned DIY, you can get your EPA license on-line for $25 and a simple test that allows you to do your own work but not to do any R-22 work for hire. All my equipment was grandfathered, if you need to buy equipment (and learn what is needed) to be in compliance for a single installation it will not pay for you to go that route.
Interestingly, Goodman does not now sell for as steeply a discounted price as they did 2 years ago, their reputation has gotten much better over 5 years ago.
* the air handler cabinet is very flimsy, needed to add 2 braces made out of conduit to prevent some 'oil can type' noise.
** It did have a loose compressor mounting bolt that needed to be tightened.
* and ** Both of the units only had an orifice for a metering device, it is worth the $20 or so (plus install) to replace that with a TXV.
Caution on recomendations here and everywhere. HVAC stuff is a protected marketing racket. You can't buy one unless you are specifically trained by that manufacturer.After you are trained then you are an authorized "X" installer. Territories are set and X can set the prices so profits are assured.
Goodman / (Armstrong too?) is the only open source Mfgr I knew of. Meaning you don't have to drink the kool-aid in order to buy one. Also it is more of an open market for the buyers.
I do have a Goodman sealed combustion unit. LP fueled it works fine. Even though I have it in the northwoods cottage idling all of the time and firing up on weekends. No complaints here. It was also installed by a Plumbing & heating company.
In a bow to the Pros, you do need to size whichever unit you buy and make a good plan of your air runs. No matter how good the furnace may be it is only as good as the delivery system.
I don't know if your looking for a straight cool unit with electric heat, but thats the type we install in Miami (not much need for heat here). I have worked on and installed central air conditioners since 1984. Please, please , I repeat please don't buy a Goodman (also called Janitrol) . I would also avoid Rheem or Rhuud (same unit). I would stick with Trane or Lennox if you are looking for a straight cool system. I am not a Trane or Lennox salesman, nor do I own stock in them. The few dozen Goodmans or Janitrols I have installed for peoples rentals or ,'' I'm selling the house in a couple months'' types, have been noisy and problematic.
How noisy were they? Was it every one or just a lot of them? If they exceed the spec, they should fix it. Actually, I'm looking to replace the furnace for my rental unit and possibly my place. I just got a quote for replacement of just the furnace (45K BTU) of $1500 and I just can't see $650 in labor and there would be almost no parts needed. The existing unit is a Rheem 90+% 75K BTU on a place that's way too small for it (<900 sq ft). The blower board took a squat and the contacts on the blower relay are toast, but I can't just buy the relay and in their infinite wisdom, they aren't using both sets of contacts. It's 18 years old and I don't know how much longer it will last, which is why I'm looking at replacement. I could replace just the blower board but, again, don't know how long it will last.Even if they test for equal distribution, that can't take long and cost very much. Am I off base here?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Edited 3/21/2006 10:47 pm by highfigh
Can't give any advice on the furnaces. Nobody installs them on the southern tip of Florida. I can tell you that the Goodman(Janitrol) condensing units are noisy and chintzy. The air handlers aren't real bad, just bad. The cabinet is very light weight and the front panel doesn't have a right angle bent along its edge so there are ripples or waves along the panel even when its installed. I don't no the region you live in but where I lived, 90% of the air handlers are in hall closets in the house. Also ,90% of the homes have tile , marble , or hardwood flooring throughout the house , which is why noise was such an issue. I hope I was of some help. 96 1340
I'm in Wisconsin and we have basements, so if it's a litle noisy, it shouldn't be much of a problem. With all of th hard surfaces and being placed in the living spaces, I can see why they're considered noisy. Worst case, I can add some sound deadening material to the sheet metal to quiet it down. I have looked at some Goodman and Janitrol furnaces and thought they had edge breaks, but I can go to see them again to make sure.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I've got them in and around me , yes they are louder them I would prefer but you are also looking at bottom dollar with good performance. I 'll give you some failures I've had and wouldn't be surprised if these wouldn't be in the CR column as failures/reliability issues.
On 3 different units had to replace ignitor. All three have older oversized flues which cause frequent cycle of start sequence. Which means every time that happens the ignitor cycles. If that takes place 3 times for every one it will eat into cycle life.
On another one total failure to run heat cycle. Not getting code indicator trouble shoot? Reason Nearby HWH relief valve leaking, puddle at base of furnace causing corrosion on contact terminals of power Printed circuit board. Wiggle wiggle dry waterup, replace relief valve. Also the tenants didn't want to tell us for 3 weeks till they had the money to carpet clean. Ya it was piggy but I would have fixed the furnace. And this was in January this year?
And the other failure Machine wouldn't cycle, heat cycle? Blown safety fuse ? 2 or 3 amp. Cause the furnace was on a circuit that also had the garage outlet on it. Some body used something(can't remember what) and the furnace was running and it blew the breaker. Customer flipped it and safety fuse kicked cause it was still in full power mode. That one took some hunting to figure out.
So all in all it doesn't look bad to me.
They also have the Amana line which is still made at the same places but are more feature laden.
I will never under stand there cheap #### packaging. You would think they could save in reputation and appearance by adding some more cardboard.
do not understand why Goodman does not package the units better for shipping
or why the sheet metal on the air handler and outside cabinets are not just a little thicker- another 0.030 would help- sheet steel is cheap!makes you wonder what other pattern problems the company ignores???????
I've had my Goodman variable speed furnace for about 2 years now. Love the variable speed, seems to minimize the hot and cold spots in my house. I had one issue with it, something like a heat element/sensor that failed. Installers said if you touch them they'll fail early. What mattered was they fixed under warrenty in no time.
There's an HVAC forum out there (http://hvac-talk.com/vbb/) where you'll find gazzilions of pages written about Goodman. All the extremes are represented. I'd say though that the pro's like to give goodman a hard time because they tend to be dedicated to brand x that the install most of the time (how's that for non-biased).
I'd definatly get one, unless your obsessed with Brands and Pretty Packaging (ie. Trane).
Kevin
The hot surface ignitor is definitely going to fail if it gets skin (or other) oil on it. Good thing is, they're easy to replace but they need to be in the flame correctly or they won't sense the temperature the way they should.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."