The fabricator/installer of a granite co. is scaring us. We are at the end of a kitchen rebuilding and have just the countertops to do.
Issue 1, Rusty says, is that the 30″ cabinet won’t accomodate a cooktop and granite countertop.
Issue 2, The amatuer drywall done by myself is off by 3/4 ” and that He, Rusty, being a pro, won’t attempt to set granite on counter.
Issue 3, The drop-in sink most likely break the granite.
I thought we were comming in for a smooth landing, instead it seems its dark and the runway lights have been shut off. I’d appreciate any input about this delimma. Also, If there are any dryway/carpentry experts available to assist, We live in the Washington, DC area.
Replies
Issue 1, Rusty says, is that the 30" cabinet won't accomodate a cooktop and granite countertop.
Is the cooktop at the end of a run, or some reason the granite won't be supported by a cabinet on either side of the cooktop cabinet? Is there going to be a seam near the cooktop?
Issue 2, The amatuer drywall done by myself is off by 3/4 " and that He, Rusty, being a pro, won't attempt to set granite on counter.
How is the drywall off by 3/4"? Is there a hump, or something else?
Issue 3, The drop-in sink most likely break the granite.
Why not use an undermount? I can see his concern. Behind, and in front of the sink, the counter top will only be a few inches wide. Granite doesn't have much strength when laid flat. You have to imagine all the weight of a sink full of water, and dishes, putting all the load on the granite in these areas.
Is there another granite fabricator, that could give you a second opinion?
Speak the truth, or make your peace some other way.
(Issue 3, The drop-in sink most likely break the granite.
Why not use an undermount? I can see his concern. Behind, and in front of the sink, the counter top will only be a few inches wide. Granite doesn't have much strength when laid flat. You have to imagine all the weight of a sink full of water, and dishes, putting all the load on the granite in these areas.)
Out of curiousity, am I missing something? How does the undermount sink create less stress? If there's really an issue, couldn't you easily provide some support for the sink from below that would (maybe at the loss of some storage) eliminate the problem?
PaulB
You're right. You could support the underside of a drop-in sink the same as an undermount. But, if you are going to do it, why not go with an undermount?
I think that is one of the big advantages of granite, or solid surface, tops.Speak the truth, or make your peace some other way.
I understand dustin, I guess where I'm losing you is how the undermount sink (at least the ones I've used) put less stress on the granite? The only ones I'm familiar with use a combination of anchors and silicone to mount and IIRC have no more support than a drop in sink... I think... ?
PaulB
We used to do it that way, but one too many failures. Now, we fabricate a plywood "lid" for the sink base. The granite installers cut out the "lid", and the undermount is siliconed to the granite, but supported by the plywood.Speak the truth, or make your peace some other way.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhh... That explains it! Thanks, I've actually worried about that many times, although never had a problem yet ;)
PaulB
The only problem is that I can't use tilt out, because of the way the plywood is mounted.
So, I just order the trays, and fasten them to the inside of a sink base door.Speak the truth, or make your peace some other way.
Always nice to know that I'm not paranoid... just cautious ;)
Dustin & Paul,
Thanks for you input.
I guess to help as visualation, we broke thru a wall (nlb) to create an upside-down L shape kitchen. To make the flow better in this design we swapped window/door position. So what I've ended up with is a wall which if I scale back may not be flush w/window sill and if I ad on will look odd.
To clarify, the layout is an upside-down L shape kitchen. On the short side/top, is the 30" cabinet, and yes, it is on the end. How much clearance should we account for to make this happen? Should I attempt to cut into the corner unit to accomodate for clearance?
2)To attempt to make it clearer, we swapped window/door positions, so in the corse of my amatuer work, the long side of the L, the top & bottom are'nt plumb (?) and are off by 3/4"-1". The end of the L/the bottum is where the door is.
3) the sink drop in vs. undermount debate is confusing me. How much clearance again does one need? Aestheticly, I think the drop in will look nice. The undermount w/ extra holes for faucet head does'nt really appeal to me.
So i'm in the bag, how do I get out w/o stripping back down and starting over?
N8, I'm having trouble visualizing the "plumb" problem. Is it cabinets that are out or perhaps not vertically aligned on end of run?
Cabinet can probably be reinforced to hold granite and sink if need be. Specifically, what are Rusty's concerns?
Pictures will be of help get more info. Even a sketch.PJ
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
Thanks for your input Pete,
The plumb issue consists of:
L - upside down, the long side is off the wall at one end
At staightest point along the wall, using as a guide, a straight edge separates from wall by 3/4"-1".
is the short leg of the L square to the long leg?
Are the cabinets shimmed out that far from the wall?
Plumb
adj.
Exactly vertical. See Synonyms at vertical.
From http://www.websters.comSpeak the truth, or make your peace some other way.
N8,
The picture your words are painting for me is that the short leg of the "L" is at the top, touching the ceiling. The end of the long leg of the "L" is resting on the floor. I guess the base bottoms of the cabinets are mounted to the other wall, or can you walk around and view the undersides of the cabinets?
The counter top is out of plumb by 3/4" - 1" in the distance from the floor to the ceiling, and the granite guy doesn't want to hang the countertop in less than a straight up and down (plumb) position.
As to the sink being an undermount or drop in, it won't matter because a bowl won't hold water laying on its' side.
I'm pretty sure that is not what you are really trying to do.
IS IT?!?!?!
View ImageSamT
Fill the void with joint compound /plaster and then feather it out to a straight wall.
Thanks SamT & Others,
OK, thank you for your drawing. Sorry, I don't have drawings or pictures but I will make the attempt tonite to have them for illustration. Back to your drawing, if you laid it down, horizontally, that would be it.
I have found a cooktop with a min width of 26". I feel positive that this can work.
I believe the granite is 1 1/4" thick. This can cover the 3/4" gap, won't it?
The sink issue is really losing me. The sink we choose, looks nice and cost less. Is there somthing thats not being said about the durability of granite? Will the lip of the granite/part being covered crumble away from being untreated? (overtime)
I used to work for a stone company and my job was to help customers, fabricators, and installers deal with these issues...
1) have the tops been fabricated already?
If they haven't been, you can bump out the sink cabinet to give you more "meat" around the sink. This works if you want to get an oversized sink into the cabinet.
2) What are the cutout dimensions for the stove and the sink? What size is the sink cabinet?
Is the stove a slide-in range or a drop-in cooktop? does it have a downdraft ventilator? Is the sink a standard 33x22? cast iron? americast? stainless?
Generally the stone (yours is 3cm) can be rodded to support more weight we used tension bars, the same used on fences. We stopped using all thread in 3cm stone because it wasn't giving it enough support.
Have you thought of using a different stone? The lesser priced ones like Ubatuba, Gallo St Cecelia, Mariposa (butterfly) green are not as dense as the Absoloute black, black Galaxy, or Volga Blue.
Although, I must admit, your installer doesn't seem to be that experienced to be able to help you out with suggestions on how to deal with your problems.
Another suggestion, If the wall is out (not flat) and you don't want to mess with it anymore, why not have the stone installed and then do either a full height splash along the offending wall or do a tile backsplash? Either would look better along the wall than just paint.
Thank You Woodnutter,
I have considered and will place a mosaic tile along the "offending" wall.
The cooktop cutout spec says a min. of 26"w and 19"d. The way I read it there will be 3 pieces/slabs of a rosecolored stone. On the short side 66x26 where cook top will be. I think, 90"x26" on long side w/ sink, stainless steel, 33x22. The left over space will be a remnant 20x26.
Also, at anytime, me being an ametuer, is this somthing, once cut, I can attempt to position w/ help of strong freind?
Most definitely!
Make sure that you use 100% silicone to stick it in place once you get it there. Seams can be done with either a color matched caulk or if you have a couple of bucks, use some stone epoxy tinted to match the predominate color of the stone. You can get both at a local stone supply, or online.
Drop in sink holes are usually cut in the house once the stone has been glued in place. Expect a LOT of dust. even if you use vacuums, dust collectors, shrouds, etc... There will still be dust everywhere in the room.
Also, FYI- undermount sinks look good, but if they ever dent, leak, or crack, you WILL have to replace the stone on top because it WILL break when it is removed to replace the sink. I always prefer a cast iron drop in sink.
The only other option for the cutout for either sinks or stoves are to strip it. Which means that the fabricators make two strips (one for the back, one for the front) so that if a strip cracks, it is more easily replaced than a whole piece with a cutout...
A MOMENT OF CLARITY BROUGHT US BY.... WOODNUTTER!
THANKS FOR YOUR HELP. i THINK I SEE IT NOW.
N8
Your explanation isn't very clear. Pictures would be best.
There is no way to have a drop in cook top in the end cabinet, that I know of. You'll have to add an end panel, or another cabinet. I'd suggest something at least 3" wide, but 6"-9" would be ideal. The cooktop needs most of the room to drop in, and that doesn't leave anything to support the end of the granite.
What size cabinet is your sink base? I don't understand what clearance you need.
Did you work with a kitchen designer?
I don't understand what could be 3/4"-1" out of plumb. Speak the truth, or make your peace some other way.
Just for the hell of it, try another granite fabricator. You have nothing to lose and might actually get the job done without any B.S.
On your issue #3, the fabricator I use almost always routs a groove front and back of the sink opening and epoxies in a stainless steel rod. Makes a huge difference in what the stone will handle.
Bruce
Between the mountains and the desert ...