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ATTENTION TILE INSTALLERS (PROFESSIONAL INPUT ONLY, PLEASE)
One of our brothers has a serious problem and I told him that I would take it to the Web.
It seems that this fellow has a consistent problem with color consistency with ceramic tile floors. Sometimes it’s with light colors and sometimes it’s with dark colors. It has gotten so bad that he has stooped so low as to read the instructions on the bag (shame). The directions say to float in the grout and then buff out with a Turkish towel. DO NOT USE A SPONGE OR WATER!
I own and operate a small Kitchen and Bath store in Pennsylvania. We install much of what we sell and have been setting tile for roughly ten years. We have installed hundreds of wall and floor tile jobs. Rarely do we run into this problem. Here are our methods. Keep in mind that all of our floor jobs are thinset. We always use 1/4″ Hardi-backer (except on concrete).We always use flexible, modified thinset. Now, to our grouting methods. For ceramic floors we always use sanded, latex modified cement grout. Of course we clean the floor, after the tile has been laid for at least 24 hours. We mix the grout to an even consistency (not too much water but wet enough so the material flows freely). Always working rapidly, we pack the joints and margins with a rubber or sponge rubber edged float, filling the joints full, but scraping most of the remaining grout off of the tile faces, leaving only a thin film to clean up later. As soon as, but not before the grout film starts to lighten up in color we hit it the first time with our sponges. I buy sponges by the bale (25 pcs). I think they are about 4″ x 6″ x 2″ thick. Just the right size so that the hand can control what we’re doing. Starting with a bucket of clean, cool water we wet and ring out the sponge, only rewetting when the grout really starts to clog up the sponge. We generally move the sponge on a diagonal to the joints making sure that every joint and margin is full and the film on the tile face is cleaned enough so as not to adhere. No other tool can shape a grout joint as simply and perfctly as a damp sponge. We usually shape our margins flush with a putty knife or a small spackling knife, before we sponge.
We all realize that every time that we hit fresh grout with a damp sponge that some color is pulled out of the joints so we are always trying to keep this to a minimum. Sometimes after the grout begins to set we will hit it once more with a damp sponge. This is done only to “break-in” the edges of the grout joints and to further clean the tile faces. If posible we will skip this step. Last step is to buff out the tile with a dry, coarse rag, old towel, or even clean burlap. In this step we concentrate on “breaking -in” and polishing the joints and margins, polishing the tile faces. No water is used in this step. The next day we or sometimes the homeowner can clean the tile once more with a sponge or even a dry towel.
That is our method and we generally have good, even coloration. Most of our problems have always been with the lighter, milder colors such as the peaches, light browns, light greys and almonds. The bold, deep bright colors almost never give us trouble.
I would appreciate input from any professionals on their methods of grouting floor tile and maybe we can all learn a trick or two.
p.s. Our buddy that I mentioned at the story’s beginning will catch up with us when he returns from his vacation in Istanbul. (Holiday Inns-Lock Up Your Linen)
Replies
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After reading your well written post, I say you don't have a problem with your technique. You do seem well aware of the potential discoloration/inconsistent coloring from using too much water. And that, ol boy, is your problem.
Three things; one, you are consistently using too much water to mix the grout. I like the consistency of baby poop. (I can't believe I said that and if any of you take that out of context you'll be cyber-drawn and quartered) Two, you are retempering the grout with more water. Three, you are using a latex admix that has either been exposed to freezing and/or has exceeded it's shelf life.
Try a couple jobs grouting without the latex. Also, experiment with the mix consistency. Can't say it hasn't happened to me, but it's back to Helper 101 for the time being.
Chow
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Great post. You probably won't believe this, but my partner and I just went through this same problem about a week ago. The floor was approx. 14"x20", we tiled it in the same manner you mentioned(Cement board, flex. thinset, etc.), and grout was also put down in the same manner. A few days later we received a distraught call from the customer saying that the grout was curing with light and dark spots. We ended up removing the grout because we found no other way to fix it. What a mess! We questioned the customer to see if she had maybe tried to mop the floor before it set, because we never ran into that problem before. She insisted that she had not touched the floor. Bad batch, maybe? Anyway, the second time around was a charm, and the same manners were used. Things that make you go hmmm.
*We have used the same techniques as you have, and have used two or three brands of latex modified sanded grouts. With one or two exceptions for factory product problems, our color variations and blotchiness come down to installation problems. Those problems and the headaches of dealing with customer maintenance concerns led us to begin recommending epoxy grouts on our custom jobs, and to using only epoxy grout on our spec housing division. It's not a perfect solution; epoxy has it's own set of quirks. But our callbacks have droppped to near zero. It sure made our 65 year old lead man cranky for a while!
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ATTENTION TILE INSTALLERS (PROFESSIONAL INPUT ONLY, PLEASE)
One of our brothers has a serious problem and I told him that I would take it to the Web.
It seems that this fellow has a consistent problem with color consistency with ceramic tile floors. Sometimes it's with light colors and sometimes it's with dark colors. It has gotten so bad that he has stooped so low as to read the instructions on the bag (shame). The directions say to float in the grout and then buff out with a Turkish towel. DO NOT USE A SPONGE OR WATER!
I own and operate a small Kitchen and Bath store in Pennsylvania. We install much of what we sell and have been setting tile for roughly ten years. We have installed hundreds of wall and floor tile jobs. Rarely do we run into this problem. Here are our methods. Keep in mind that all of our floor jobs are thinset. We always use 1/4" Hardi-backer (except on concrete).We always use flexible, modified thinset. Now, to our grouting methods. For ceramic floors we always use sanded, latex modified cement grout. Of course we clean the floor, after the tile has been laid for at least 24 hours. We mix the grout to an even consistency (not too much water but wet enough so the material flows freely). Always working rapidly, we pack the joints and margins with a rubber or sponge rubber edged float, filling the joints full, but scraping most of the remaining grout off of the tile faces, leaving only a thin film to clean up later. As soon as, but not before the grout film starts to lighten up in color we hit it the first time with our sponges. I buy sponges by the bale (25 pcs). I think they are about 4" x 6" x 2" thick. Just the right size so that the hand can control what we're doing. Starting with a bucket of clean, cool water we wet and ring out the sponge, only rewetting when the grout really starts to clog up the sponge. We generally move the sponge on a diagonal to the joints making sure that every joint and margin is full and the film on the tile face is cleaned enough so as not to adhere. No other tool can shape a grout joint as simply and perfctly as a damp sponge. We usually shape our margins flush with a putty knife or a small spackling knife, before we sponge.
We all realize that every time that we hit fresh grout with a damp sponge that some color is pulled out of the joints so we are always trying to keep this to a minimum. Sometimes after the grout begins to set we will hit it once more with a damp sponge. This is done only to "break-in" the edges of the grout joints and to further clean the tile faces. If posible we will skip this step. Last step is to buff out the tile with a dry, coarse rag, old towel, or even clean burlap. In this step we concentrate on "breaking -in" and polishing the joints and margins, polishing the tile faces. No water is used in this step. The next day we or sometimes the homeowner can clean the tile once more with a sponge or even a dry towel.
That is our method and we generally have good, even coloration. Most of our problems have always been with the lighter, milder colors such as the peaches, light browns, light greys and almonds. The bold, deep bright colors almost never give us trouble.
I would appreciate input from any professionals on their methods of grouting floor tile and maybe we can all learn a trick or two.
p.s. Our buddy that I mentioned at the story's beginning will catch up with us when he returns from his vacation in Istanbul. (Holiday Inns-Lock Up Your Linen)