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I have an 11 year old boy who plays the guitar. He’s been playing for about 5 years, and says he wants to continue. Trouble is, he’s outgrown the small guitar we bought him 5 years ago when he started, and we’re not sure what to buy him now.
See first post for more………
Replies
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Our options are as follows:
I'd prefer to buy him a mid-sized acoustical guitar. For a couple hundred bucks we can get him set up for several more years. It's easily portable for when he plays at church, at camp, or wherever.
The second option is a small electric guitar. We can get a used one fairly inexpensively, but then we have to have an amplifier. We would lose a lot of portability and still have to buy an amp. And he'd probably outgrow it in 4 or 5 years and want a full sized one.
What my Son wants is a butt kicking full sized electric guitar with an amplifier that Tim Taylor would be proud of. There's a used guiutar he's spotted for $325, and I'm not sure how much an amp costs. We'd be up over $500 total I'm sure. But this would set him up for a long time.
My experiences in musical instruments are limited to playing the french horn in high school, so I feel a bit lost here. (BTW - did you know french hornists are good kissers? But they sure do hold you funny)
Any of you musicians out there have any suggestions? What do you look for in amplifiers, anyway? Any brands to look for or stay away from? Do these things hold resale value if he gives up the guitar and decides to play the xylophone one of these days? Any advantages of electric over acoustical? (Besides cranking it up loud enough to rattle windows)
Thanks for any help.
*Ron, yes... and no. (Nows the time for a harmonica)A new-at-retail guitar, wether acoustic or electricwill drop like a stone in value over 5 years.If high quality, and there's some collector/serious player interest, it will increase in value over 20+ years as the instrument achieves it's "voice".Subjective to say the least.Brand-name commercial instruments, like Fender/Gibson/Martin/Rickenbacher are easy to find used, and will maintain most of that value overthe next 5 years. USED. 25 to 50% of retail price as new. Second string lines, Guild/Gretsch/Ventura, etc... are cheaper, but will have less resale as well.Custom maker instruments will break the bank, have most value, and will appreciate over time.Have you heard of Ovation brand acoustic-electric guitars? So-so for unamplified sound, but capableof play without an amp. Last I knew, waaaay cheaper than a Gibson "Les Paul".As to Amps... I can't help with the current lines.Way back when (Led Zep was on the radio) one looked for Marshall, Fender, or Gibson Amps.Your son, and your windows/neighbors don't really need more than 35 to 55 watts. Loud ain't good. Good is good. Some of the old Blues Men used tiny amps, like 10 watts. Overgrown cigar boxes.Now, as to acoustic vs. electric. If he's into the '60s/'70s bands... wah-wah, reverb, and phase-shifter pedals will be needed.And... a electric guitar.Zep, America, CSN&Y, Seals and Crofts, Stones, and Pink Floyd all used acoustic instruments along with their electrics.So... if your 11 year old is looking to play the "old stuff rock"... he can... he just needs to select thesongs that match the instument.Now, switch him to Zydeco/Blues/Jazz and you're backinto electric.A turn to Bluegrass/Folk/and some Country... and he's in need of a big-ass acoustic.See? Easy. Time for a harmonica.
*Ron,It really depends on what kind of music he's into. When my son was just starting, a neighbor found an old Teisco Del Ray (cheap strat copy) for $35. He's still playing it at 16 (with new pick-ups).If he wants to go the electric route, you can pick up a Fender Squire cheap. The pick-ups can be easily changed out (this is where they skimp on cheap guitars) when he's ready for a better sound.A good starter amp would be a Fender Champion 110. It has enough wattage to fill his room with sound and then some. It is also voiced such that you can play an acoustic electric through it also.Check out Harmony Central's user forum for a multitude of differing opinions and choices at the following link.http://acapella.harmony-central.com/cgi-bin/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number=16&SUBMIT=GoThe discussions can get somewhat "adult" in nature for an eleven year old so be forewarned. Feel free to email me if you want to discuss further. We've been going down this road for the past five years and the best advise I can give you is this. "Find him a job and you a set of earplugs." This hobby will get expensive and the volume levels will increase with time!!!Eric
*I play guitar (and built a few) I would find for your kid a good folk guitar. or what they used to call a parlor guitar. Takamine makes a pretty good one. I have a Fender folk guitar (steel string) and love it. Stay away from the Dreadnots(sp) because they're too large for a kid.From a personal point of view get a good (not cheap0) ecoustic. Start him on classical.......once he learns notes, rythm, caddence, beat, and all that stuff he can make his own music. It's not about making noise. (as in electric guitar)......it's about making music. Kids today seem to want to go from 0 to 100 and end up playing noise. Good music = good musical discipline. Good luck.
*Ron,I neglected to mention that I got a Fender DG-11E acoustic electric this past year for myself. It has a good voice, can be played through an amp and is resonably priced ($280 I think). Can't go too cheap on an acoustic (like a $69 Gremlin) or you'll be wasting your money. Stay away from practice guitars. Even the little Martin Backpacker has really poor tone. The parlor guitar idea is good if your kid is small. Take him to a Guitar Center, Sam Ash or other such store if you have one near. Let him play everthing. Buying a guitar is like buying fine tools; ya gotta hold 'em in your hand, see how they feel, cut, sound, etc.Eric
*Ron, I started out playing the guitar at about the same age as your son. And like him, I soon grew tired of my $5 garage sale guitar. I had big dreams and expensive tastes. Luckily I didn't have any money so ended up just buying a cheap Epiphone electric and Crate 15 watt amp. I say luckily because a few years later as my tastes and understanding matured I realized that the big dollar rigs I was infatuated with were pretty much junk. It would be akin to a laborer with six months experience going out to outfit himself with a few grand in tools. He probably would have enough sense to stay from the junk, but I don't know if he would have the experience and discernment necessary to pick the really good tools. Having said that, I would buy him a smaller acoustic. There are many models that are a bit smaller (both in body width and width at the head nut) that would suit him well. The action on an acoustic (the amount of force to press a string against the fret) will be higher which will be good for him. One needs to build up the strength and coordination so he's not limited in the future. As you pointed out, an electric almost always requires an amp (can go unplugged for practice but not much else) and this will grow to be a pain. I think you should take him to a guitar store and play some new guitars in the $200-$500 range to get him educated. As the guys there and they will be able to point out the different things to keep in mind. Then look for a used guitar. As was previously posted, depreciation is not something you want to happen to you. The store might have some used models, if not keep an eye on the classifieds. Good luck.Jon
*Thanks for the input so far. A couple of you said "it depends on what kind of music he's playing". Right now he plays a bit of everything, but mostly Christian music and old rock. (I've heard "Yellow Submarine" a million times)I also didn't think to mention that he has a great singing voice - sounds a lot like Billy Gilman. Don't know if that should figure into things if he might play and sing at the same time.
*Tough call. But if he's been playing for five years already...that's a heck of a commitment. Certainly there's no reason to spend dollars on his dream setup, but his wishes should be weighted heavily. If he wants electric, then my inclination would be to get him electric. From the posts above, sounds like you could find decent used stuff.Always played acoustic myself.Rich Beckman
*Ron,Go to a local music store (one that sells and specializes in instruments) and try a few out. Have your son look at, and hold some electric, and accoustic guitars. See which one he prefers, and feels most comfortable with. You'd be amazed at how serious and grownup he will act when he gets in on the decision making while standing there holding a guitar.If he wants electric, talk to the store about what line is best for his age and style, and what equipment holds up best with that particular guitar. Most likely, Fender amps will be recommended.If he likes and wants accoustic, go for an Epiphone or Ovation. They sound good, will last his lifetime, and are in a realistic price range. Realistically, even if he wants to mess around with an electric, he will still want an accoustic around. Every guitarist that I ever knew had both. They play their accoustic most of the time, and electric (usually) when performing. An accoustic can be played anytime without disturbing the surrounding folks (or neighborhood).I personally have an old Gibson 6 string, and a Martin 12 string. Both have increased in value many times over. I owned an electric guitar many years ago, but I sold it. It was too loud, and sounded lousy when played without the amp. I have kept true to the accoustic, and probably will play them both till the day I die. Just a thought...James DuHamel
*I have just gone through this with my son as well. He is 12 and has been playing for about 4-5 years.Truth is your kid needs 2 guitars.My son moved up from a toy guitar to messing with his moms guitar to an OK el cheapo to a decent acoustic. He plays that at church and on vacation.This spring he got a fender strat and a small fender amp.In another year or so he will upgrade the acoustic to what I am told will be a $1000 guitar.He owns tons of blues cd's by dead guys I never heard of.The deal is he understands there is absolutely no limit to what I will spend on guitars for him,BUT, he has to pay about 40% of the cost from allowance money,birthday money,cleaning up job sites etc.I pay for all lesson costs.Do not buy the Squire. The mexican fender strat is good enough for now.The American strat will hold its value better.Tools are something you use to pay for guitars. I have more than enough tools. You can never have enough guitars in the house.The best gift I have EVER recieved is a tape my son made of him playing guitar.The second best gift I have recieved is the opportunity to buy him guitars.you can get him set up OK with a decent acoustic,a decent fender and a small amp for under $1000.Short of giving him your kidney you won't ever have a chance to give him a more priceless gift.
*...Fender......IMHO......Newf...
*Ovation acoustic/electric for me, I have two. Love the unplugged sound ,and still not wired, but have tried it out, sounds great. I agree with the "finding it's voice" comment earlier, mine is maturing still after three years.As for singing while playing, my mediocre voice sound passably good while playing; I've been told people even recognize what I'm playing and singing!!!!Personal observation: learn the acoustic (control, expression, (musicality if that's a word) etc. first, then switch to electric). The tendency when wired is to gadget-ize and lose focus on the skills.
*My dad bought me a Martin D18 for my 12th birthday. 29yrs later he still contends that it was the best investment that he ever made bar none. It's buy far the most valuable material thing my dad ever bought me. Today it's worth 4 or 5 times the purchase price. I still have it and enjoy it when ever I can take the time. It's the best friend I ever had. Never disagrees with me, gives me no greif, just asks for a little TLC. It played in a working band untill a miter saw claimed the tip of my index finger on my left hand. Wouldn't you know, that guitar was the best therapy I had in learning to use my hand and fingers in their new configuration. I was determined to continue playing and in no time my fingers were working togather again. My advice is to buy a quality instrument. More so than most things you buy, you get what you pay for.
*If you you kind of like the Ovation, there's a cheaper, look-a-like called Applause, it's not bad.Get him the electric he want's, maybe he'll be a rock star some day.
*"My advice is to buy a quality instrument. More so than most things you buy, you get what you pay for."Amen!No one would b evermistake me for a musician, but I've found I play much better on quality instruments than on crap.If you want to encourage him, get the best you can afford.
*>It's the best friend I ever had. Never disagrees with me,A guitar and a good dog = a firm foundation for dealing with humanity
*I'm jealous!! Your dad was one money, Martins are second to none.
*You might consider that most of the major brands have import knock-offs that are a lot cheaper, and perform very well.Gibson=EpiphoneFender=SquireOvation=ApplauseAll good products, I've found.Also, a few years back I picked up a Yamaha acoustic because I needed a "leaning on the couch, wouldn't be too upset if it got knocked over" guitar. It only cost $179 at the time, had decent tone, and good action.Lotsa choices, good luck.Mike
*When I was a teen, I became interested in playing the guitar. Even learned a couple chords from a friend. I asked for a guitar of my own. I was given what amounted to a toy guitar. It was real enough, but it was REAL cheap. It sounded like a toy. I suppose that if I had been real determined, I still could have learned on this thing. But no matter how I tried, it sounded like a toy. Hard to tell if I would have kept at it, if I'd had a real guitar. My gut says yes, but I guess I'll never know. I am positive that me mum was thinking that I would probably just pick at it a bit, and give up, and therefore she didn't want to spend a bunch of money on something that would just collect dust. Personaly, I know that I was actualy more determined than that, I really did like practicing on a friend's guitar. Having to try to learn on such a cheap guitar actualy made her supposition a self-fulfilling prophecy.Tried recently, and I think this dog is just too old to learn that trick anymore.
*Hi Ron,If you buy your son a good enough "axe", it'll last..(till the next one he buys!) ha ha..Of course your son has commendable experience. I would think a young fella with five years of practiceis ready for anything. Acoustic or electric.A pre owned musical instrument is the way to go if you're budget minded. Keep an eye on the classifieds.College students often sell their guitars. Condition's everything. Some guitars see very little use and if they've been stored in their case can be good as new.A good all around choice would be an Ovation acoustic/electric. They're pricey brand new but if you found a used one for around $300 that would be pretty good. There are other makes of guitar you may consider as well, Martin is excellent and there is a production model that's reasonable.If you do opt to spend several hundred dollars be sure and get a hard shell case. Keep us posted ...Dan-O
*Great to see that I'm among so many guitar players. I've been playing my Epiphone acoustic since 1972 (although I can't say I've improved since 1976!). Self-taught, aspire to take lessons one day, but working on piano right now.My nephew took up guitar at 12, very gifted, surpassed his teacher in about 3 years, went electric, played in a blues band and then a rock band, abandoned it at 19. I don't know if that says something about him or that maybe he should have found a better teacher at 15 and stuck with acoustical for a while longer? Maybe he'll pick it up again one day.Seems like everyone should bring their guitars to the next Breaktime get-together. Taunton might even show up for that one!
*i abandoned it at 19It's really tough trying to make it, I feel for him.You work really hard to learn songs, gain a following, and then the band breaks up or something and you're back at square one.I don't know why he quit, all I can say is it's a lot tougher than most think.
*and we could all play the Sometimes Slow-posting Taunton Blues....
*doo DOO doo DOO DOO,I was stuck in tavern all mornin',
*..tryin' to think of something to post..
*"The guitar handbook" by Ralph Denyer say's it best; "Buy the best guitar you can afford. More beginners are discouraged by trying to learn on a bad guitar that by any other factor." Now I know your kid is by no means a beginner, but from what you say, he is obviously ready for a big step up in quality. make sure he gets something that won't limit him or hold him back. Imagine trying to trim out an ornate stairway using "benchtop" or "tool shop" brand tools...
*I bought my Aria acoustic about that same time--great sound! Haven't practiced in years, sadly.Still have fond memories of parties w/folks on the LR floor playing, singing. Relatively innocent times, now that I reflect.
*I say give the kid the money and let him buy what he wants. And the right amp might be more important than the guitar. Takes a few years and a few bucks to figure out.
*Just an added thought.....I can pick up an old cheap Harmony and make it sound great by adjusting the strings, straightening the neck..fix the frets...etc. Easy chores for a carpenter with a repair manual.
*Another vote for the Ovation for an accoustic (Glen Campbell used a round-bottom for years). Martin's are really nice, be getting to be over-priced IMHO. For electric, it depends on the sound you want, I personally like the Gretch Country Gentleman, but it can't play the hard-edged stuff like a Stratocaster (sp?). There are some Yamaha's that are copies of Espana's, okay in nylon, tinny with steel. I have a National "nickle" N, which is really a lot of fun too.
*I definitely agree with whoever said take your son to the store and let him play guitars until he finds one he likes. In 1974 I spent at least an hour picking up guitars and playing. Most of 'em I set right back down in seconds. When I picked up the one I settled on, I knew right away. Great sound, action, and beautiful to boot. I ended up buying an S. Yairi, hand made in Nagoya, Japan. I spent $300 (I think). I've never seen another Yairi, but I still love my guitar. I have no idea what value it may have, but I'm not taking offers....Rich Beckman
*Hey Ron, I don't get a chance to log on here much anymore. How did you do on your spec house? Are you still in the truss business? Scott
*Phill, Phil here. You got a National Steel? Wow,that's my next puchase. How do you like it?
*It's, ... interesting. When I worked in the coffee house in the '60s we had Bukka White in for a week, he had one, and I really liked it. Some time later they had one in McTamney's window (famous Toronto pawn shop) and the price was right. I do think the new ones and the Dobros are superior instruments to my old box - this one is a triple cone with a Hawiian neck. The rare times that I play, I usually pick the D-28 instead.
*Thanks for asking, Scott.The $#%&@#* spec house from hell still hasn't sold. No sense getting into that.Yes, I'm still in the truss business, but with a new company. You can chack them out at http://www.rehkempers.com/ if you're interested. (they don't have my picture on there yet - I'm still working on that)
*Ron,I don't know much about guitars so I can't make recommendations like those who play. However, I do play the piano for my own enjoyment and think I can relate a little. My suggestion would be in line with the others of going to the store and get your son involved in the purchase. If the instrument he picks is more expensive than you planned, then maybe he could assume the difference. Things you pay for yourself are taken care of better, IMHO. Lastly, go for the quality. It can be viewed as if it were a tool and the better the tool you purchase, the easier it is to use and the better it does the job it was designed to do. Just my opinionFrank Tate
*Rich, You bought a very nice Ibanez. I don't know what they go for used but new they are easily over $1000. That's a very nice axe.Jon
*Have any of y'alls considered making one? I mean, from a kit. Martin sells kits, prebent sides etc.
*Carvin sells necks for those feeling a little more adventurous.
*Jon,Thanks! That's very interesting. But how does my S.Yairi become an Ibanez??Rich Beckman
*>Have any of y'alls considered making one? I mean, from a kit. Martin sells kits, prebent sides etc.I built one years ago one winter in Ak...three sided Brazilian Rosewood back etc...D35 ....paid like 135.00 for the kit....Still have it....plays great and is beautiful as ever. That was my first instrument and I had no power tools....lots of time, but not too difficult.
*Oh...I got to looking myself. You are talking about K.Yairi, made by S's brother I believe. I remember now the salesman using the fact that some famous guitarist played a K. Yairi and that this guitar was made by the brother (I guess there is a bit of relevence there, but I didn't think so at the time!). Judging from what I've just seen looking around the web, I don't think the S. Yairi's are worth as much (certainly a lot rarer though!).Thanks for sparking my curiosity.Rich Beckman
*Rich, That's interesting... I never knew that there were brothers out there. Learn something new every day.Jon
*Ron,I don't spend much time here in the Tavern, but clicked over today and saw your thread.I've been a musician all my life. It's a blessing. When I was 17, I got together enough money to buy a Yamaha FG-180 acoustic guitar. It's been a friend ever since and holds a place of honor in my music room. Although I only paid about $125.00 for it new, over the years the wood has mellowed into the most beautiful and richest tones I have ever heard. I did pick up a Martin at the Mars center here in Dallas a few months ago who's sound was close, but it had an $8000.00 price tag on it. Before that guitar, I had a cheap Aria 12 string that was so hard to play, it took most of the fun out of it.I guess what I'm trying to say is buy a "good" instrument. It doesn't have to be high dollar to be good. 30 years later and I wouldn't sell my Yamaha for anything.I do own lots of other guitars, basses, banjos, drums, harmonicas and weird instruments who's names I will never know and love them all. This won't be your son's last instrument I hope, but make it one he likes.Listen to your son. It's important that the instrument makes him smile regardless of how cheap it is.But he is still a kid. Let him buy his own $8000.00 Martin when he's grown. He'll thank you for it.I love my electrics. They can talk so many different languages. If your son is really enjoying playing, it would be fun to have access to both electric and acoustic instruments. I wish I had at his age.Ed.
*>I do own lots of other guitars, basses, banjos, drums, harmonicas and weird instruments who's names I will never know and love them allMe too Dallas (except no electrics) I love to (puff puff) play, improvise as I go. (Can read, but hate to) My all time favorite instrument is the old cello my wife bought me a while back. Since my voice mimics a fog horn on a bad day I just play.I definitely believe old instruments that have been taken care of sound much mellower, aged wood and all that, plus the dings give it somw class. Would like to buy Willies (Nelson) old guitar when he's done with it, the thing is full of holes and sounds great!
*Hi Ron,I see you've got a ton of responses, and I see some good advise, but I can't resist...I've been playing for about 17 years, and I agree that you should buy him a good instrument. Let him choose whether it's acoustic or electric. For amps, most players prefer tubes, but they're generally very pricey and do require an occassional tube replacement. Beats solid-state sound-wise anyday, IMHO though. Even so, take him to the nearest Guitar Center, Sam Ash, etc., and ask the salesperson to show you the LINE 6 product line. They make software-based amps that emulate just about any of the classic tube amps (Mesa/Boogie, Marshall, Soldano, Fender, Vox, etc.) VERY realistically. I'm thinking you'll probably want him to play around with a Line 6 "Spyder". I think they're a couple hundred bucks. Oh yeah, head out to the record (remember those?) store and pick up an ERIC JOHNSON cd. I recommend Ah Via Musicom for starters. If listening to Eric doesn't make him want to woodshed for hours in his bedroom, nothing will!
*Listening to Eric Johnson may just discourage him.Just kidding.After all, he is a good Texas boy.If he's into Christian Rock, I might suggest the band Creed. They started out as a Christian Rock band. Who knew?But learning a few Chuck Berry licks will give him a great base for lots of rock music. For acoustic....John Fahey? Richard Thompson? Leo Kottke? Doc Watson? Man I could go on and on.Ed.
*Now that we have gotten into extolling the merits of listening the the greats I must put my two cents in. 1. Stevie Ray Vaughan- you'd think that the guitar is merely an extension of his mind, he plays it with such ease.2. Phil Keagy- Some have said that he is the best on guitar and I would be inclined to agree. I can't think of any that have such well-rounded expertise (acoustic, electric, blues, rock, country, beatles, insturments, etc.) that he has. His "blue" album is good for great guitar work and has a good mix of a few different styles. Any of his instrumental albums will be impressive also.There you have it.Jon
*Eric Johnson....the guy claims he can tell the brand of the battery in his effects pedals from the sound....he can pick.I agree with Loncat....give him the money, let him choose. he may want one, or both. For acoustics....all the big names have been mentioned here,but Yamahas are good, solid , playable guitars in my opinion. Substance over style. for electrics....well, really....can you spell FENDER? kidding; different tatses. I was a Strat guy, my next guitar, before I gave it up, was gonna be a black custom Telecaster with a toroiseshell pickguard. Perfect git-tar for the Twin I sold and mourn....I'll never forget hooking it up to my buddy's Super and I believe other assorted amps, just plain going for loud and overdriven on a certain evening where there just may have been a little acid involved after practice....I lived in a valley that was a natural amplifier...anyway, now I live many hours drive to the east, which may or may not be related to aforementioned incident.on electrics, hard to beat an American Strat and a practice amp...let him save up for an old Super or Twin. Marshalls are for pussys.
*Lenny Breau - the only guitarist to leave Chet Atkins speechless.
*Phil Keagy was the beginning cause of my desire to learn to play the guitar as a teen.I suppose someday I'll have a shop, where I'll make a guitar, and then realize that I don't know how to play it, but can't bring myself to give it away, and I'll buckle down and finaly learn.I still sometimes wake up singing..."What a day""That will be""Oh what a day that will be"....b : )
*Luka, You're my kind of guy...How about:"give me more darkness said the blindman,give me more folly said the fool,give me stone silence said the deafman,I didn't believe Sunday School..."
*When I was thirteen my father gave me a Harmony Sovereign which ,lacking in musical talent, I beat on and stroked and anxed over for many years until it expired in a house fire. Best friend i ever had through good times and bad. Ron I can't help you but wish your son the best in the future. Hope he gets as much enjoyment out of it as I did mine. Would like to see some of you musical types bring a guitar or two to the next get together. Skip
*Guitar/bass cases by the door.
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I have an 11 year old boy who plays the guitar. He's been playing for about 5 years, and says he wants to continue. Trouble is, he's outgrown the small guitar we bought him 5 years ago when he started, and we're not sure what to buy him now.
See first post for more.........