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Putting a new kitchen ceiling in yesterday. The customer is also having two hard wood floors refinished.
They’re expecting the floor guys in the morning but they don’t show till about 11:00. Two guys in what must have been their mom’s minivan.
The drum sander comes out of the van but has no plug on the cord. That’s because they’ve figured out that they can stuff the bare wires into the outlet and then the machine will run off of either the oven or dryer’s electrical outlet. He told me proudly that he can also wire it right into the “electric box” if there’s no outlet “big enough” in the house.
So they sand with the doors to the room open. I was two rooms away and saw dust floating in the sunlight.
They buff the floor with sanding screens and put on only one coat of whatever they were using. And collect $350.
They had three floors to do that day and were in a hurry to get to the third.
Replies
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Can't say much for the rest of the job but the business with the cord is
i derigueur.
Sam
*Ryan,In my area the hacks not only get rich they also have enough work year round and usually drive new pickups. I guess some folks learn the hard way that you usually get what you pay for.
*most of 'em would like to plug in to a 220 outlet.. and sometimes they get lucky... but most of the time they get a mismatch so they all do just as you described....hot wire to the box or pigtail to the range / dryer outlet...the dust control is another matter....never seen a good solution yet..... even if they can confine it to the rooms they're working in... everything in the room is nuked...best to prepare the homeowner for the absolute mess and include professional cleaners in the price or else.......be very clear about how bad the dust is...
*First I don't know how 'rich' they're getting at $350. You deduct the cost of the sanding belts for the drum sander,sanding screens and one gallon of finish these two guys probaly made about $250 split two ways or $125 apiece. As far as being 'hacks' I coldn't agree more. It is people like this that give our profession the bad reputation it has obtained to a certain degree. I for one am tired of seeing 'professionals' skimp and cut corners for whatever reason motivates them. I consistantly try to persuad clients or builders that a certain standard must be upheld or they face the problem of inferior work or premature failure of the work completed. Unfortunately there isn't much that can be done about it but I too am quite tired of seeing less than a quality effort among our peers. The saddest part about it is that I've noticed that although these 'professionals' do substandard work consistantly, not enough of them fail as a business and have no intention of changing.
*I have to compete with the hacks all the time. People are soooo price sensitive & its caused problems. I got a notice from my insurance agent that now I have to carry a $10,000.00 call-back policy on remodling work. I have had only 1 call-back in 2 years (15 minute fix) but I am being forced to carry a policy (state law). For us that do good work makes it unfair.
*$125 x 3 jobs/day, George, but i'd still rather burn in hell.
*Your right splinter, they are truly getting rich being hacks. I misread and thought it was for the whole house. I'm wondering how much edging,corner scraping and sanding,and vaccuming and dust collecting these clowns achieve in roughly 4 hrs??? You know splinter, more often than not it's a woman who sees when I've put my foot in my mouth. Gender thing??? Thanks.
*I had a plumbing co-worker who figured that there wasn't much to sanding floors. Went and rented the biggest sander he could find, cleared the room out, open a sliding glass door for ventilation, and hit the switch. He was not prepared for the torque and the sander took off across the room. Went right out the open door. He was on the second floor. It bashed through the railing and, as evidenced by the sanding marks on the roof, was still spinning when it landed on the car parked below. He now admits that expertise in one area does not always transfer.
*Yeah Dave, it was only after doing mine, my parents and my brothers floors that I decided to offer my services in this endeavour to the public. It is definately not as easy as people would assume just because the average person can rent a machine, buy a book or video and go to it. As a carpenter the installation was easy if you follow the rules, the finishing takes some practice and patience , there are definate grades of sanding,screening,applying, screening,applying that must be followed in order to achieve the desired finish. Took my lumps with family first, they seem more inclined to let me make some learning mistakes than a paying customer. Unconditional love(and free work) has it's benefits.
*I was OK until you got to the parked car, then laughed myself clean off the stool! I have a picture of a sander still running amok through the Alaskan wilderness...and the Forest Service getting blamed for the clearcuts...
*I now sit in Arizona doing stairwork, when I was doing floors (hardwood),I would sit with the client and explain that it would be best if they took a weekend vacation and let me tape and plastic the house, get the dust controled, and for the most part keep them out of the mix. The stuff the client will go through for two days of work is not worth the horror stories you see above. As I've said in the past, people have NO idea whats involved with most or any remodel or re-finish, they look at $$$$$$$$.And when some crew comes in with a lower bid, they give damn less who's doing it........as long as the price is right.To all you folks reading and lurking....If you want a Porche...Dont go to a Volkswagen dealer!Charge decent money, do a decent job, get the HACKS out of the business. Take pictures and get recomendations to use as a kind of advertisement.
*I gotta love Davids comments. I can see the drum sander taking off..LOL. In reading Ryan's comments it sounds like this was the the initial visit to the job which requires the use of a drum sander if they are taking it down to barewood. Then come finer belts and eventually screening with a lowboy and coating once to provide the sealer.Yea, the dust issue is bad and the area should have been protected. Was this just one small room? I have a feeling the $350 collected was a draw as these guys will be back to place additional coats as per their contract. I won't get into the minivan, but I've seen all sorts of methods(bare wires into a temp pole outside) for wiring a drum sander into 220 which it needs to run.They'll be back when all the other trades are done to place the final finishing touches on the floor and collect more draws. You gotta consider their schedules as they go back and forth for screenings and recoat etc. I wouldn't consider showing up at 11 AM as a problem as they may be involved in 2-4 different jobs each day, unless they are involved in a massive 5,000 sf job.
*Just finished working on a couple of houses this "cabinet maker" had been working in. The first house a spec house, the cabinets were made out of plywood and stained.They looked like something out of a 60's industrial arts book, they took him a month to build in place. The second house I saw him at was a custom,for the same builder we were teasing the builder about using him again. " Why he's the cheapest cabinet maker around." Was the comment. After three weeks of the home owner regecting his cabinets the guy walked off the job telling the home owner that he couldn't do what she was asking. She ordered the cabinets from someone else and when it came time to install them the builder talked the home owner into letting the wanna be cabinet guy into installing them to save her $400. Letting bye gones be bye goes she let him hang em. he hung em and left. When she put the stove in place the hanging microwave sat about six inches above the burners. Some people never learn.
*This was only a floor refinish of one room. Maybe 14x17. No second visit. They are done. Took them 3 hours. Some other work is being done in the house but not in that area.
*b WBA At Your ServiceGunner, Six inches ? I'll bet the hood fan worked the nuts! A few years ago our area's most respected installation and finishing company had an employee (and family member) come into contact with a cast-iron radiator while running a floor sander. No one knew the sander had a short in its wiring. Unfortunately, the young man didn't survive. It was a really tragic thing that didn't have to happen. Many of the area hardwood companies changed their hookups to 220V GFIs as a result. At least some have learned.
*sounds pretty honest to me...just because you all work way too hard for your money, it gives you the right to slam some floor refinishers? i am not a floor refinisher but i've worked on a project next to such a crew and found them to be real nice guys who just do what they have to do to get by. what would you do/charge if you were in ther shoes?my advice....evaluate yourself before you judge others!gabe
*Gabe the going rate in this area is $2.50 per square ft. to sand and refinish floors. That price includes taping or shutting off all other accesses, sanding the floor back to raw and then progress up to smooth using the right grit of paper on the last pass depending on wood species, clean up of all dust particles (that includes window ledges, ontop of door casing,etc. or anywhere else floor saw dust might drop into unfinished finish causing lumps), one coat of sealer and two coats of standard oil based polyurethane with screenings between coats. This is an industry standard for a BASIC floor refinish. A 14x17 room is 238 sq. ft. at $2.5 is $595. These guys only charged $350. So in a sense your right, they came in cheap and probaly gave the job they figured they were gettig paid for. It still makes them hacks and they deserve the title. Not only are they hacks, the fact that the come in so cheap is as equally disgusting. There should be some discrepencies in pricing work but there should never be as muchas a 42% swing. That's close to half price around here for an industry standard and pricing like that eventually will lower wages for the rest of us.
*An update:I talked to the customer about her floor yesterday, the day after it was done. Never told her I thought things weren't right with the floor.She said they used only one coat of the finish but that it's a new chemical and will last over 20 years without dulling.
*Could you let us know how that worked out, Ryan? Andy
*Looking for a new product to review, Andy? :)
*Okay, the way I got it figured, the guys left a little dust, put one coat on, and didn't properly sand the wood. Or maybe, they even sanded it properly. After all, how long does it take to sand a small room like that? I don't know, the last room I sanded was at least twenty years ago.Call me a sucker, but I'd be inclined to vacumn my whole house for the difference. And I might even put the second and third coat on too. Hey, cut me some slack, I never claimed to be a wise buyer. I'm sure I've had much worse buys.blue
*b WBA At Your Service"It will last over 20 years without dulling." Come on now. W.C. Fields would have a field day with this. In consideration of your description of these guys, they sound less like the type to be aware of NASA's new super duper floor finish and more like the type that won't be around in 2 months, let alone 20 years. I would love to see a can of this stuff. Fabulon ???
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Putting a new kitchen ceiling in yesterday. The customer is also having two hard wood floors refinished.
They're expecting the floor guys in the morning but they don't show till about 11:00. Two guys in what must have been their mom's minivan.
The drum sander comes out of the van but has no plug on the cord. That's because they've figured out that they can stuff the bare wires into the outlet and then the machine will run off of either the oven or dryer's electrical outlet. He told me proudly that he can also wire it right into the "electric box" if there's no outlet "big enough" in the house.
So they sand with the doors to the room open. I was two rooms away and saw dust floating in the sunlight.
They buff the floor with sanding screens and put on only one coat of whatever they were using. And collect $350.
They had three floors to do that day and were in a hurry to get to the third.