HAND-NAIL 30 SQ OF SHAKES?? ARRGH!!
Yeh, okay, I’m lazy. I do not wanna have to hand-nail thirty squares of resawn heavies if I can avoid it. That, plus the fact the local big box sells the shakes but does not carry the proper nails for them (didn’t even know they existed). According to the tool & fastener buyer, it seems ‘everybody’ just uses 2½” commons.
Yeah, right.
Somebody who actually knows a bit more about roofing suggested using ½”-crown staples, but I’m not so sure. I don’t think the crown is wide enough.
I’m not against staples. I use 1″-crown HT-65s for asphalt shingles all the time and have never had a problem with blowoff. But asphalt shingles are only 1/8″ thick. The shakes are about 3/8″ thick in the nailing zone, and HT-65 staples are only 3/4″ long. Too, the HT-65 is a hammer-tacker and doesn’t drive staples well except into an inflexible base. It would bounce bad on the 1x skip sheathing I’ll be installing over 2x sleepers (there’s gonna be 1½” of rigid insulation under the shakes).
I am thinking I want an air-stapler that shoots a 1″ crown, 1¼” leg minimum. Better yet 1½”. So I’m looking at the Senco WC150XP. Big bucks; also somewhat limited application as I don’t build pallets and I only get calls for shake roofs about once a decade….
Is this overkill? Or can someone point me at a nailer that shoots shake nails?
Walter? Piffin? Grant? Anyone else?
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice….
Replies
Sorry Dino , I'm no help . What few I've ever put on were done by hand .
we use a sidewall coil nailer ( like the N66 ) and a ring-shank SS 2 1/2
the shank is pretty narrow and the head is on the small sideMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Narrow shank is good, but small head is not ideal.An issue is the pitch and climate too.All those staples I used were in dry climate TX and CO. I would expect them to rust off too soon here, now that I think on it.
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The full 8d for hand nailing is pretty ridiculous BTW, we used 6d or 7d galv typically. the sevens gave a slimmer shank but good length for heavies. Most of the time, sixes would be fine, if you kept a handfull of sevens or eights handy in pouch for the few gnarly ones that required a bit of length to hold
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I remember getting "Box" nails for shakes. About a 6, but dipped and thinner than commons. Used 4 or 5's for sawn shingles.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Right
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I ordered SS shake nails from Swan Secure. Great product. They may have coil stock.
http://www.swansecure.com/You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
Marv--
Thanks, that Swan link is a good source. They do indeed have stainless (304 & 316) wire-coil shake nails in both smooth and ring-shank, up to 1¾". 3/8" head with a .120 shank. And they will fit a bunch of different roofing guns (including the Bostich guns my local rental joint has) so this might be the answer.
All I gotta do is find out if they distribute to Canada; importing them directly myself would be prohibitively expensive. Simpson Strong Tie just bought out Swan and I am pretty sure we can buy SST hangers up here. I'll have to check this afternoon while I'm at the BB for some soffit material.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
We use the stapler too.......but upgrade to Stainless fasteners. Last job had over a grand into fasteners alone,but they will not rust and can face nail if needed without leaving a rust trail running down the roof.
I've laid a couple thousand square, about half by hand and half with a 2-1/2" L x 1/2" crown stapler. Would not use a marrow crown on shingles, but on shakes with air adjusted right, it works fine.
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Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
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Thanks for all the good info, everybody; I'm headed off to the local big-box (only game in town, dammit!) to beat them over the head with the fact that somewhere outside their tiny, closed minds, things that do not show up in the franchise's catalog actually exist.
Damn, I love educating suppliers. This is gonna be fun...?
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I have seen a narrow crown stapler used to hold the corners tight. They might have used it to hold the shakes to the wall as well, but I wasn't repairing that part so I couldn't see.
I use my MAX Coil siding nailer. 2 1/2" Galv. Ring shanks. Staples suck.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"
Jed Clampitt
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Like Duane I used 2 1/2" ringshank out of my Max guns...I used SS where they're exposed to the weather like on the siding handsplits.. but on the roof where the "royals" bury the nails I used dbl dipped galvies out of my max guns
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
When I framed, I found dozens of uses for that 1" crown Senco.
When I framed, I found dozens of uses for that 1" crown Senco
Yeah, I was thinking that, too. It would be a real demon for some sheathing apps; dunno if that meets our code, tho. Have to check....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I used it for a lot more than just sheathing. I can't remember them all but I never left the tool in the shop. In fact, I rarely used it for sheathing because we always had plenty of medium crown staplers for that.
One creative use was using the staples to connect the "on the flat" 2x4's that made up our walls for circular stairs. We put on hundreds of Tyvek with the wide crown too.
I never hesitated to use it for roofing my stuff either. When I built on Lake Huron (big winds), I stapled the dimensional shingles on and they held fast....I never lost a shingle despite forgetting to add the two additional staples required for "high wind" areas. I was kinda worried about that for the first winter.
I put them on with staples but ONLY stainless steel staples.
I did many on the ocean front here in Oregon, The last big storm with gusts of 149 plus they all stayed on even though some are 10 to 15 years old now.
I dont as a rule like staples but staple a shake on with the right staple and try and remove it, You cant !!! With a 7penny you can lift the shake, with the right staple it has to come apart in pieces..
However Shakes done without SS staples just Gal ones fall off in a short time as the staples rust right off{at least here by salt air}..
I dont know how you do your shakes but sometimes if i had a good helper he would run a row out while i was stairstepping up and i could run over and staple that course on, All he had to do was go by the felt and make sure he kept the right distance from the gaps.
So one could get a good bang for the buck with a good helper
Bobby,
Were you using ½" crown or 1" crown? And did you have to special-order stainless staples? (and if so from whom?)
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I had to special order SS back then, I have a old bostich T3600??? with a half inch crown for the staples, i am looking for the box i had for the length. All the yards went to senco so i could not buy staples anymore nearby. I know for sure this works but im not sure how long a length fits in that gun. If moneys tight you could buy a used senco one half inch crown off craigslist.. Or if you could only get Bostich i would mail you mine if you mail it back.
Thanks, Bobby, that's too generous of ya. I can rent Bostich staplers and nailers up here for about $15 per day if I don't wanna buy one. I know from experience it'd cost at least six times that much to mail the gun from there to here and back again. Canada Post ain't cheap once you get past 100 grams....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I missed the part where you said when you were starting. If not right away, fastenerusa.com. Got all kinds of SS for everything.
I know your on skip sheathing, but someone told me roofing nails for shakes on OSB, why not?
1. The shank dia. of ordinary roofing nails is too fat; it splits the shakes.
2. Shakes need to dry; they are laid on skip sheathing to allow air to reach the undersides of them and aid in that process. You should never install shakes directly on solid sheathing.
There is a newish product called 'cedar-breather' which is a membrane made of the same sort of plastic 'sponge' material as Scotch-brite scrubbers. The theory is you tack that membrane to the solid roof deck and then lay your shakes or shingles over it. Air is supposed to circulate through the porous membrane and dry the underside of the roofing.
I will evaluate its performance for another decade or two before using it myself....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Roof nails have too large a shank diameter - will split the cedars
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