Hanging chimney in Historic District
Looked at a house today in one of Bangors Historic Districts where it appears this chimney was built to add symmetry to the exterior — having chimneys on both sides of this hipped roof house.
The flashing and brick work above the roof need to be re built or a certificate of appropriateness needs to be obtained to remove it and slate it in.
All the old metal gutter liners need to be redone , closed valleys opened — so there are lots of dollars being spent already.
How would you vote Rebuild or remove ??
Replies
Repair.
Straight lines, balance, even keel, symmetry....
that's me.
A La Carte Government funding... the real democracy.
Any pictures of the outside?
If the house is fairly true to its age, I'd vote to keep the chimney.
Mike ,
None from the street, but here are both chimneys seen from the rear.
The first shows the closed, worn out valley and the supported chimney in behind. The second has a gas burning fireplace on it.
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Is the facade pretty symmetrical or are there assymetrical ells on either end?
Look like the chimneys are on the "gable end" slopes...that makes me think removing one wouldn't be as big a deal as it would if they were on the main slope....
Mike,
I'll be back in Bangor on Monday afternoon, so I'll take some pictures from the street then.
Walter
If it "feels" correct with the chimney in place when viewed from the street I would advocate for leaving it. Hijack :
That roof doesn't look all that bad once away from the valley . Are you replacing the whole roof or just doing repairs? I am curious how that closed slate valley is constructed, what is under the slate at the valley?
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
This house was built right after the Bangor Fire of 1911 so it has the original slate roof.
The closed valleys had zinc step flashings woven with each course of slates. It has worn thru - hence the tar attempting to keep out water intrusion.
The bulk of the roof is in fine shape. The external , metal lined gutter system needs replacement.
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Your photo confirms that the symmetry of two chimneys is an important defining characteristic of the house.
Here are the applicable standards for rehabilitation in a Historic District:
2. The historic character of a property will be retained and preserved. The removal of distinctive materials or alteration of features, spaces, and spatial relationships that characterize a property will be avoided.
5. Distinctive materials, features, finishes, and construction techniques or examples of craftsmanship that characterize a property will be preserved.
6. Deteriorated historic features will be repaired rather than replaced. Where the severity of deterioration requires replacement of a distinctive feature, the new feature will match the old in design, color, texture, and, where possible, materials. Replacement of missing features will be substantiated by documentary and physical evidence.
The reason for having a district and a national set of standards is to avoid the application of opinions in a case like this - what matter are the questions related to the standards:Is this a defining feature? (answer - "yes" - symmetry is obviously important here)
Can it be repaired? (answer - probably not)
Can it be replaced in kind? - (answer - "yes" but maybe not with the exact brick size)
Jeff
Edited 4/12/2008 5:50 pm ET by Jeff_Clarke
Jeff,
Then where would COA's fit into this picture ?
COA is usually an acknowledgment at the local (HPC) level that aspects of a project conform to NPS (Federal) / SHPO guidelines.
In this case, removal of a chimney is not appropriate, so a COA would be denied (assuming that the Bangor HPC follows the guidelines). Remember - they are guidelines, not requirements. That's why local HPCs have reviews.
Jeff
Mike,
Heres a shot from across the St.
Once the maple on the right leafs out the hanging chimney won't be seen.
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I'd prefer to see only one chimney on that house. I don't like the looks of that twin feature. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Interesting--it looks like a Queen Anne style, which the best examples of are usally asymmetrical, but on that house it looks like symmetry is indeed important. I wouldn't cry if the chimney was removed but it would be nice if there was any way to keep/repair/replace it.
Old buildings like that get diluted one piece at a time until the original is gone. That seems like the opposite of your approach to things.
Mike,
There is certainly a way to keep it there -- spend 3 large to rebuild it and another one to flash it properly !
Could that four grand be put to better use elsewhere on the roof ? without a doubt. Could the owner get a COA ? It is who you know . and a few more factors.
Heres a link to my roof sleuthing -- in order to prepare a detailed analysis of the problems and how costly the solutions might be.
Walter
http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=8cbsmrhq0u4&emid=sharshar&linkid=link5
or a certificate of appropriateness needs to be obtained to remove it and slate it in.
Bwahahaha. COA's can often be circumvented by a little work on a Saturday. But you didn't hear that from me.
http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
Grant,
I know of which you speak.
Problem lies with neighbor being owner of largest Archy firm in Northern part of State and very picky of what transpires in HIS neighborhood.
I have a great rapport with a lot of the Pres. Comm. members which I won't jeopardize for this client to save a few big ones.
Walter
I have a great rapport with a lot of the Pres. Comm. members which I won't jeopardize for this client to save a few big ones.
Same here.
But we have an enforcement officer that is a total ahole. She's been working there about 3-4 years. Dale and I have been dealing with them for 5x that. We pretty much know what we can get away with and we like to fart in her general direction whenever possible. http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
Back to the original question:
Usually cribbed chimneys like that are tough to keep from leaking unless they're thru flashed. I see it as a liability, but if it's not leaking and it's stable (it's obviously been there for a while), I'd see no reason to remove it.
My concern would be as soon as I touch it, it'd start leaking and then it's my problem. http://grantlogan.net/
But you all knew that. I detailed it extensively in my blog.
This one needs to be topped and flashed - which seems like a waste of money since it's only for balance.
It will be up to the client , but theres lots of other roof work thats pressing so if it were me I'd remove and slate it. That would eliminate one maintainance issue.
You could tell her that you'll leave the part below the roof deck, so someone else could "easily" restore it if they wanted too.
From your description it is a defining characteristic of the structure and therefore should be retained (and rebuilt if necessary).
That is the standard, not whether anyone likes it or not.
Jeff
I'd vote remove it. Just seems (well, it IS)...fake.
I can see their point about the symetry. I just don't like the looks of it! I think the house would look much better with one, but it ain't my house! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07