Is there any *preferred method* when doing a remodel…….
– Adding plenty of 2*10 blocking where the base/wall cabinets would be screwed into.
– Instead of sheetrock, use plywood on the side of the walls where the cabinets lie ?
– Use a kitchen cabinet hanging rail – wood vs metal……like the haefle wall rail ?
Replies
Don't say it!!!!!!
DW screws
"Sir! You are drunk!"
"Madam! You are ugly, and tomorrow I shall be sober!!" Winston Churchill
Ya know, around here we call those bad boys 'piffin screws'.cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
Why do ya think I said "DON'T SAY IT!!!"
Now Piffin is gonna get in and start.......
Quick Quick get me a beer before it starts!!!!!!"Sir! You are drunk!"
"Madam! You are ugly, and tomorrow I shall be sober!!" Winston Churchill
When did Piffin change his name to "DW"?DonThe GlassMasterworks - If it scratches, I etch it!
The metal wall rails are really good, but the cabinets have to be built to accomodate them....same situation with a wood rail. If you're building the cabinets, easy to do, but not all manufactured cabinets could be adapted.
Personally, I like solid blocking in the walls when I can get it, but most of the time it's a matter of going into the studs. I don't think the plywood option is necessary or adds any value.
cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, N.S
I come from the school where we block behind the drywall wall, screw the cabinets together at the bench and hang with 3'' coarse drywall screws and finish washers.
I've used 3/4 ply before where we've had a bank between two wing walls because a stainless back splash was specified.
I've used a Z bar hanging rail also. It comes with Poggenpohl packages. I can't imagine this being an advantage for a cabinet that wasn't built especially for use with this system. The Z bar works with two hooks on the cabinet back and has in out and up down adjustment. I don't think there would be anyway make a good set without this adjustment. Without the up down you cannot get the cabinet tight to the drywall even if by some miricle you happen to get the bars in exactly the same plane. But with both parts the system was really nice . . . on the second kitchen. While hanging the first kitchen I was wanting to send the entire country of Germany a nasty email. They think there so smart.
Drywall screws and soap not recommended for use on cabinets.
Maybe if you prefaced your statements with something like "in my opinion" or "I think". You wouldn't sound so arrogant. Or is that your aim? Oh I almost forgot you have that secret rulebook. I certainly wasn't asking for input, and have had cabinets hanging for as long as I've been working with three inch screws, and who said anything about soap. Just some advice from a friend to a friend
Just a statement from McFeely's catalog. Tried to make a statement without being to long winded about it. I could never be a politician because I don't choose my words well. I really don't intend to offend. Maybe they said it because they sell screws or because there is merit to the statement.
Can't we all just get along?
He's right by the way, if you're hanging cabinets with drywall screws it may be time to check into rehab.....IMHO
Sorry. Your right. Doodabug just seems to have a knack for putting me on the defense . . er offense. I am by no means opposed to using a better product and have hung cabinets many time with screws similar to ones described here. But on the other hand I have never had a problem using 3'' screws, regular coarse thread drywall, either. The forum is for sharing our techniques and learning. I think here without the benefit of face to face, body language, voice inflection etc it is important to choose words that will be productive. But maybe I'm just a little oversensitive. Sorry Dood.
You see there are a number of "preferred methods" to hang upper cabinets. Mine is to build the uppers with 3/4-in-thick, plywood backs so I can fasten them anywhere and without blocking. We do that with 3 1/2-inch by #14, flathead Spax brand screws (not the self drilling type). They don't break like drywall screws - I've used many thousands, of all sizes, and maybe broke a half dozen in ten years. They're great, because you can drive them with either phillips or square drive bits, which don't cam out. We leave the heads only slightly recessed after drilling and countersinking with a Fuller bit combination, and then (if the owner wants) cover them with pre-finished Fastcaps. If the cabinets are exposed (like bookcases or glass doored uppers), we countersink and plug the holes to make the fasteners invisible. After striking a level line with a laser and locating stud centers, it takes less than twenty minutes to jack an 8-ft-wide cabinet into place and secure it to the wall.... and that includes shimming it plumb against an out-of-plumb wall.
I've used Hafele's aluminum hanging rails and find they slow me down, and they leave no room for adjustment. In a perfect room, they'd be okay, but I haven't come across one of those yet. I've got some collecting dust in my store-room, and you can have them if you want them.
Gary W
[email protected]
Edited 6/18/2005 3:29 pm ET by Gary_W
Would you mind elaborating on the screws and the soap?
Spax is the brand of screw (I buy them at Orchard Supply Hardware and from my wholesalers), and they're made in Europe. They are a "square-X" drive head, meaning you can drive them with a phillips (the X) or a square driver. Like phillips drivers, square drivers come in various numbered sizes, although I've used only 1, 2, and 3. Driver size 2 is for #8 through (I believe) #10, and driver size 3 fits #12 and 14 screws. The square drive does not cam out, like phillips drivers do, but your customer can still drive or remove the screws with a common phillips driver.
I don't often use soap to lubricate screws, except in maple or other real hard hardwoods. It's easily cleaned up, not oily, doesn't cause the wood to swell, and prevents the screw from binding and possibly breaking. I keep a bar of Ivory soap on the shelf and then drag the threads over the bar before driving. Since most of us run screws with powered drivers, soap and the driver's clutch prevent mishaps.Gary W
[email protected]
McFeely's catalog recommends not using soap. Their claim is that soap attracts and holds moisture causing the screws to rust. I read that about 15 years ago. Right or wrong, since I read that I only use wax. I have'nt used a drywall screw in cabinets for 15 years either but I did for 12 years before I read it. I figured the guy making the screws new more than I did.
Edited 6/18/2005 8:04 pm ET by doodabug
Porter Cable lube wax melted in a double boiler and mixed with common parrafin makes a nice screw thread lube.
3 parts P-C wax to one part parrafin, by wieght.
The P-C wax by itself is too soft for my liking, the 1/4 parrafin hardens the wax a bit. The two waxes are compatable, mix nicely and do not separate when cooling. I cast the resulting mixture in empty 35mm film cans ( the plastic ones are fine, won't melt when filled). In use, I jam the screw into the wax to coat the threads then replace the top to the film can to keep assorted crud out.
Make sure to do this when the DW is away -- mine always panics when she finds some non-cooking operation going in "her" kitchen.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
I do the cooking. I will try that.
Beeswax is good, and I suppose I use that more now building cabinets and furniture. I started using soap building wooden boats, where we used silicon bronze, stainless and monel screws (a copper/nickel alloy), which aren't so affected by moisture. Soap and wax were each used, but I saved beeswax for tools and soap for screws.Gary W
[email protected]
soap attracts moisture. >>>>> rust.
I don't know if you are asking a question. I have seen the statement more than once.
Denver Rocky Mountain News March 8,1997 Don't make the mistake of using soap to lubricate the screws. It will attract moisture that will eventually cause the screws to rust.
Check out GRK cabinet screws and trim screws:
http://www.grkfasteners.com/cabinet_screws.htm
I really like hanging cabinets with their screws. The torx drives seldom strip, they have thinner, stronger shanks to reduce splitting, are self-tapping, and have washers built into the heads.
I also use their torx trim head screws to join face frames together. They work great and look so much better than using big deck or piffin screws. I make the countersinks for them with an Irwin step-drill bit (uni-bit).
I install my bases first and place a 19-1/4" tall 42" wide jig made of 1x8 on top of the level bases and set my wall cabinets on the jig, shim to my level line on the wall, and screw 'em in.
Put a stud in the wall where you will be scribing a filler.
then you can use some long screws and sock it tight and your scribe will look perfect forever.
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