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The best bits I have used are from Apex. I don't know how good they are now after being bought by cooper tools, but they look the same. I know several people who worked there.
http://www.coopertools.com/catalog/pdffiles/TC-100_EN.pdf
Edited 2/14/2006 8:03 pm ET by MarkH
Ne'er as I'm aware it'a a trade off. The 'harder' you make them the more 'brittle' they are and more subject to 'snapping-off'. The less harder you make them the more subject they are to 'stripping'. Can't have your cake and eat it, though some are definitely better than others.
Let's not confuse the issue with facts!
Thanks for the replies,I guess I'll continue using the standard. I've been using those 3.5" grip rite exterior screws (green) with the combo head . I find it difficult sometiimes while standing on a ladder, to sink without stripping the head The pressure has to be on the extra firm side or the last 1/4" spins the bit.
I've had good luck with the driver bits from Mcfeelys. They are a two piece design with a hardened tip on a mild steel body.
If the screws have a combo slot, use a 2+2 bit made for them. There's a world of difference in how well they'll drive those screws.
A 2+2 is a mix of a #2 phillips and a #2 square. Almost looks like a #3 philips but they're not interchangeable.... Buic
Is that the same as the blue ones that come in the box w/ deckmate screws?
Those hold the screw like a lab on a bone, but do break sometimes (w/ an impact driver).
I think that's it - the deckmate driver bits. They're kinda silvery-blue. I haven't broken one while using an impact, but sure have busted a few using a regular cordless drill.
Spent part of yesterday driving 5" Ledgerlok lags with my Hitachi 12V impact driver, no pilot hole, nice and smooth and no effort other than to pull the trigger and hold it steady. It has also worked really well on 9" and 11" panel screws - noisy, but effective.
Yes, they're the same configuration. And I agree, they drive very well.
As others have posted, bits from "wiha" and "apex" are better then average. Vermont American "ice" bits are also good quality.
If you don't have an impact, the right 75 cent bit will make a big difference... Buic
I used my Dewalt 14.4 impact driver to do over 400 ft of 3 rail horse fence for a buddy one day.
We were attaching 2x8 oak rails to 4x4 pt posts (@10' oc) w/ three 3" deckmate screws at each overlap (avg 12-15 per post).
Went through two bits, and quite a few beers that hot Saturday, and needed FOUR batteries in two chargers just to keep up.
Two solutions - use the combo bit made specifically for those Grip-Rite screws, and use an impact driver. My local store sells those screws and the bits (they are an ice-blue color) and I have not stripped or broken one yet with my Hitachi impact gun.
I'll have to look for those too, thanks.
Lee Valley sells bulk square drive bits for a good price. They're optimized in hardness- not so hard that your impact driver routinely shatters the tips, and not so soft that you have to throw them out every time you cam-out on a couple of screws. In comparison, the hardware store variety sold around here are as soft as baby sh*t.
I hate to feed the fire, but the best thing to do is buy an impact driver. It will drive whatever screws you have with whatever tip you have, soft or hard, and zero camming out. Sleep with it under the pillow.
what david meiland said...........that is the best advice given out of all these replysthe impact is the cat's meow and makes life so much easier whenit comes to driving screws.edited to add, I meant to reply to the original poster.
Edited 2/17/2006 5:33 pm ET by butch
Any preferences on impact drivers?
Most of them are supposed to be pretty good. I have the Makita 12 v and love it. I hear the Panisonic 15 is the cat's pajamas.
Once upon a time there was a guy who needed a cordless drill, and bought a Dewalt, 14.4v. Been using them every since, have four now, and love the impact driver. I'm sure there are plenty of others equally good or better. You can get them rebuilt from Tool King.
I have a Dewalt 12 volt that came in the combo pack.The one folks made a fuss about, when I bought it at pawn shop. And a Makita 14.4 that came with the LS 1013 mitre. That's it for cordless aside from the corded 1/2'' wristbreaker Milwakee Magnum and the plastic bodied inbetween stud drill. I'll have to try that 2+2 bit
I take a lot of heat on this but: Ryobi. You buy them at Home Depot for sixty nine bucks (so you can buy four for the price of one Makita), and I have bought four, and they have all held up very well, we've driven thousands of screws (buy 'em by the thousand from McFeelys) and no sign of wear, failure, or disappointment.
Here is my two cents worth. I have a Panasonic impact driver that works great I will look up the model number when I get home tonight. Matches my other Panasonic tools battery and charger wise. I have gone to using TORX head screws, I buy them at my local lumber yard by the pound. Come in various lengths. They are also approved for treated wood. The TORX head is a #25 and works good even if you are not directly inline with the screw. They cost more than phillips or square heads but sure cut down on the cussing. Roger
Just got the 14v combo kit from Makita.First time using the impact hammer drill and wow!! ..pretty impressive and the headlight helps too. Drill / impact drill and nice worklite was about $225 from Amazon.Plus the impact driver is so lite.
I first heard about the battery powered impact drivers here at Breakstone. Our construction company had a job last fall that involved installation of accent lighting on galvanized street light poles. The job required drilling and tapping 160 3/8" diameter fine thread holes. We drilled the holes with a clamp on drill press as we where also drilling a 1 1/8" diameter opening for the electrical raceway. However we used the Panasonic impact driver for thread tapping using a tap wrench that accepts a 1/2" square drive. The results were impressive Normally we would tackle this job with an pneumatic impact wrench, however the guys used the Panasonic with excellent results. The tool paid for itself in two days. No air hoses, no compressor, worked great. Even though the driver accepts a 1/2" square drive don't expect to remove lug nuts however for fasteners the tool is terrific. Once you get used to setting screws with a battery powered impact tool the driver drill stays in the tool box. Roger
I love my Makita 12V impact driver too and use nothing but square (Robertson) drive screws- but if you're not camming out at least some of the time, you're not working it hard enough!
I found some ss bits at True value hardware. I do not who makes em. They do hold up quite well.
The other posters make good points about the 'hardening' issue. Too hard it can be brittle. I think the issue has more to do with the bits slipping.
Also the suggestion of using an impact driver is sound. I have seen those units easily drive screws in situations that were otherwise somewhere between difficult and impossible to deal with. Mighty handy. But not cheap. Especially if you don't often need such a device too often. I keep thinking I want/need/desire one enough to overcome the price tag but my miserly nature always kicks in before I can get the box to the cashier.
So far I have always been able to get the fasteners in or out. Or, worse case, work around them.
Sometimes I have been known to cut a groove and break out my Lisle model 29200 hand impact tool. Motivated by a three pound engineers hammer swung with a mix of anger, desperation and enthusiasm something always 'gives'.
More on topic what I think you really need is a bit that both won't slip and is long wearing. Something along the lines of:
http://www.wihatools.com/748serie.htm
Basic, high-quality hardened and tempered square drive bits.
They also make the highly effective and handy carbide grit and diamond coated bits, which is how I found out about the company, but they don't seem to offer either of these options in a square drive unit. Kind of surprised me they don't. Probably wouldn't hurt to give them a call or E-mail asking if they might be able to find or make them in a small batch quantity.
Thanks for the link and wisdom
Fossil said:
> Mighty handy. But not cheap. Especially if you don't often need such a> device too often. I keep thinking I want/need/desire one enough to> overcome the price tag but my miserly nature always kicks in before> I can get the box to the cashier.
Hey Fossil! That's what I used to think too. Then my wife wanted to start helping with some of the construction projects around the house. She's pretty handy, but just couldn't get the knack of driving a drywall screw without stripping the head and/or leaving them proud. Her "help" was causing me a lot more work than just doing it myself to begin with. So I dug out my wallet and bought her a Makita impact driver. Worked so well, she can hardly pry it out of my hands! <BG>
These things are AMAZING. I hardly ever use anything else for anything involving screws (except I still use a drywall gun for hanging any quantity of rock, just because it's faster). Still, even with drywall, if I am shooting into really hard wood, or long screws, or awkward angles, I reach for the Makita. One of the best tool I ever bought -- even if it did start out as a "girl's tool". ;- )
So,go ahead. Ignore your miserly nature and spring for one. I guarantee it'll be one of your favorite tools once you do. You'll be surprised just how often you "need" it!
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
I've used the McFeely's bits with those same screws you are using... boxes and boxes of those screws. No breaks, no stripping. My 18v Ryobi Impact driver is heavier than the others, but much cheaper and still very durable. The Ridgid angled impact driver is also pretty handy for those tight spots.
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
I can tell you this, I've used lots of McFeely's hardened #2 sq. drive bits and I break them very often. I'm using a makita impact gun on #10 washer heads and to me those bits a useless.
I find I break them on the 3" washer heads, but never on anything else. I break them less on their 2 7/8" Promax screws, but I broke a ton on their more conventional 3" washer heads.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
I'll admit, I was not aware of the superiority the impact drill had on a regular drill for driving screws.I looked at a Makita 14.4 today and have to say, I've never seen anyone using one.I'd consider getting one for all the odd Magyver projects I find myself doing.
Different steels will have different properties - toughness is what you should care about.
I am sure that you can buy some tougher bits, but bits are so cheap they sell tehm by the bucket.
Apex bits absolutely will not break easily. Hasn't anybody tried them? They are the real thing, industrial tools made for heavy production, not those cheap, foreign, recycled tin can steel things.
These are made of real tool steel.
I agree, when I ran an aircraft repair station that is what we used. I have not seen anything better and a lot that are nowhere as good.
hilti makes good #2 sqare tip that I use with the deckmate screws which come with a blue bit that is similar to a #3 phillips.
RTC