Once again I am seeking your help.
We have decided to look into installing hardwood on the cathedral ceiling. Right now the ceiling has been blown in with Insulation and the 6 mil poly has been put up.
I would like to know if anyone has done this and if anyone has any suggestions or comments. We would like to look at a dark wood in a matt finish 1/2″ to 3/4″ thick – 3″ wide.
If anyone has pictures that wood also help.
Replies
½" is more than sufficient for ceiling. You don't need to spend the money or hang the extra weight ¾" would cost.
I also don't understand why you specifically want to use a hardwood for a ceiling; there's no wear traffic up there, so a softwood would do just as well and cost you a substantial amount less. With proper preparation, you can stain softwood to pretty much any colour you like, or you can choose a darker softwood such as red cedar and leave it natural or oiled.
Whatever species you choose to put up there, strap the ceiling first and nail the wood to the strapping. You don't really want the ceiling in direct contact with the VB.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
If we can find 1/2" we will use it, Can you explain why it would be a problem having the wood touch the VB, I know my husband was hoping not to have to strap.
The vapour barrier will do just what its name implies: stop water vapour from going further outside the building envelope. In cold weather, the vapour barrier can become a condensation plane, even if only to a small extent. If the ceiling is right smack up against the VB, any moisture condensed on the VB surface will be trapped between it and the ceiling.
Strapping provides a space between those two surfaces in which air can circulate, and moving air will absorb condensed moisture and keep it off the surfaces. Also, moisture in moving air does not condense to anywhere near the extent that occurs when a humid, static air mass comes in contact with a cooler surface.
Strapping also keeps the ceiling from compressing the insulation fill between rafters; and beyond that, it provides wider nailing surfaces for attaching ceiling boards or panels than do the rafter edges. Finally, installing strapping is easy and quick, and 1x3 is inexpensive.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Thanks for the info. This might change DH's opinion id he has to strap it. Do we have to use wood or could we use a laminate .
Thanks for the pictures, very nice job.
Would the T&G still need to be stained or does it come finished. I seam ti recall that our floor material had the top finished but not the T&G.
You are correct about that; the tongues aren't really finished although they may catch some overspray during the process.
However, the real bad news is this: strip flooring comes in relatively short, random lengths. It must be applied over a solid deck of subfloor; you can't apply it directly to joists (or rafters or strapping) unless you don't mind leaving most of your joints floating in mid-air between support...not a good idea at all.
I counsel you to give up on the idea of using hardwood floor for the ceiling. Among other things, it's one of the most expensive ways to buy wood you can find. If you want a wood ceiling, use paneling designed for walls or ceilings. There are many types out there; what I showed in my photos is only one (the 'double-vee-pattern', a 5½"-wide board milled to look like two 2¼" vee-joint boards). There is also Pickwick, Shiplap, Beadboard, etc., in species ranging from white pine to red pine to the cedars and some of the other softwoods less common in my area.
Do we have to use wood or could we use a laminate .
In that you were discussing the strapping question, I'm not sure I understand what you are asking. Strapping is just ordinary 1x3 spruce. And surely--SURELY--you're not asking if you can use laminated 'floating' flooring on the ceiling??
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
O.K. pretend I didn't ask that question.
So far it's not lookin like this was the most practical idea. we could't afford to use the panel systems that are on the market, they are way to expensive. IF we can obtain wood at a great price, the we can afford to plywood the ceiling and then put the wood up.
Since DH can do all the work himself without contracting anything out and in time we might sell this place, we think it might be worth the time and effort to do something different inside and it would look amazing.
I'm afraid I really don't understand all your thought processes on this project; a wood ceiling is a relatively uncomplicated affair. You don't need to put plywood on the ceiling first (unless you are planning to use strip flooring, which as I explained isn't a logical thing to do for a lot of reasons).
All you need to do is to strap the rafters or trusses, and nail T&G panelling in place. Physically, it's a lot easier to do than it is to hang gyprock, and espcially since you can pre-stain the wood before it goes up, it's a lot simpler to finish than gyprock.
Pre-finished hardwood strip flooring is completely inappropriate for use on a ceiling; 'floating' laminate flooring even more so; and I must confess I have no idea what you meant by 'panel systems' unless you re referring to suspended ceilings...which, actually, are among the least expensive options from which you could choose (although not very satisfactory at the æsthetic level).
If you simply must have the look of real hardwood up there, you can probably find hardwood t&g planks milled for use as wainscotting if you look around; these would be appropriate for ceiling use. Failing that, you can purchase unmilled hardwood stock and mill it yourselves with a heavy router set up in a router table. Although that's a fair amount of work, there's no rocket science involved.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Ignore for the moment the fact that prefinished wood flooring usually has a large percentage of shorts in each box. Would it work to use prefinished engineered flooring in 1/2" thickness, stapled to the strapping?"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
'Work' is a question-begging term in that context, Ed. Sure, you could strap on 12" centers and staple to the strapping and 'float' the joints that didn't land on a 1x and it probably wouldn't fall down and land on somebody's head. But it would look like hell and cost a fortune and be a major, major PITA to install. Can you imagine standing on a stepladder while holding a 25# flooring stapler over your head on an angle with the air-hose draping down in yer face and trying to swing that big mallet and get a clean, solid hit on the stapler?
I don't think so, Gertrude....
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
That was just thinking a little outside the box. Obviously something would be used otyher than a standard floor nailer. My thought was that the thinner material would be less expensive, still be prefinished, etc. personally I would not want to try to put up any boards less than about 5 ft long, so that leaves out most of the inexpensive flooring."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Thanks Dinosaur, We are not going to be putting drywall or plywood. what ever we use we would like to strap it. We have friends that have the Vicroy pre build cottages that all have pine ceilings and walls, they also use other types of wood so we are going to see how Vicroy installed theirs
We will not be using the flooring hardwood or laminate, I am contacting a lumber mill to see what they have for us to use.
We have time to figure out what we want to do.
The two brothers who own the local Viceroy franchise live right up the road from me and I know them both pretty well. While I don't build for them, I also know most of the guys in town who do. Viceroy specifies standard installation techniques for wall and ceiling paneling, as do I. I use 16-ga. air nails: 1¼" for 5/16" panelling; 1½" for ½"; 2" for ¾" stuff.
Like I said, there's no rocket science involved with this.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
BTW, here are some photos of ½"x6" double-vee-joint pine used on a ceiling:
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Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Edited 10/20/2008 1:03 pm ET by Dinosaur
This link might be interesting for you s it includes a number of old threads dealing with wood interiors...
94969.13
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We put 3/4" maple, tongue and groove, nominal 6" wide, with slightly beveled edges on the cathedral ceiling in our kitchen. I had a carpenter contractor install the maple unfinished and he left his scaffolding in place for a week after. That allowed me to use a spray gun with a remote pressure pot to spray 4 coats of water-based satin polyurethane on the ceiling. Without the scaffolding or the spray rig I would have pre-finished the wood instead.
I used a water-based poly for 2 reasons. 1- it's sprayable without going to great lengths to exhaust vapors (but definitely requires a good organic vapor respirator and as much ventilation as you can get). 2 - because it is water-clear and doesn't yellow over time as much as other finishes. I wanted a very light ceiling.
It has worked out beautifully for us. The ceiling looks great and I expect the finish to hold up for many years without maintenance since there is no wear & tear up there. It was completed about 2-1/2 years ago.
Whichever you chose, stain the tounge of any T&G before you put it up to allow for any opening of the joits. An Open T&G joint with unstained wood behind it stands out pretty well.
we owuld probably purchase prefinished product. Would the T&G still need to be stained or does it come finished. I seam ti recall that our floor material had the top finished but not the T&G.
best to make the call when you get the product. YMMV between flooring mfgs
poorgirl.
there are a couple of points nobody has thus far mentioned..
wood ceilings like that violate building code rules. you do need to put sheet rock up first. I know it's silly but thems da rules.. I have Black walnut on the bedroom ceiling and hard maple in a few other rooms on my ceilings..
Having said that I know an awful lot of wood ceilings without sheetrock..
Second if moisture will be an issue or not depends on you and your life style.. Lots of plants big steaming cooking pots with no lids or lots of showers etc.. and high humidity, yes it could need strapping.. most won't need it since peak humidity and average humidity can vary so much
You are aware that dark wood with a nonreflective surface will make the room seem dark and tomb like.. That's fine in my bedroom where sleep is the goal but not at all suitable for living rooms and dining rooms.
Next stain and wood.It is the most amature mistake to stain say pine with a wlanut stain and hope it looks like walnut. (for example)
the grains of the two woods are massively differant. One won't look like the other at all! plus it's wrong to assume walnut is a uniform dark brown.. real walnut has so many colors. Purples, green, browns, and blacks etc.. One simply cannot pass for the other..
A better choice would be popular as least it has a somewhat similar grain.
I used that only as an example..
Good news, think of ways to cut your costs dramatically!
Don't buy wood from a lumberyard or big box stores.. Buy instead direct from sawmills.. It's the same wood except it's before the average 7 to 9 people handle it and add their mark up.. I buy wood direct from the sawmill and pay a tiny fraction of what it sells for at the lumberyards.. Plus I'm there before the really spectauclar wood is sorted out..
Let me give you examples..
Fiddleback maple which is used for the backs of high end Violins and guitars sells for as much as $350.00 for enough wood to make a violin.
I bought it for 10 cents a bd.ft.
My black walnut I paid only 17Cents a bd.ft. (those prices are one of a kind, not to be repeated)
Anyway normal prices for say white oak are 80 cents a bd.ft. cherry is about $1.15 hard maple is $1.25 Normal prices for the same at lumberyards and big box stores is typically ten times that!
What's cool is you can ask them to slice it into 1/2 thicknesses if you want.. However if you're smart you'll do like I do.. I buy what are known as thins..
You see mother nature never grows trees to the proper thickness. So there are always extra thin slices left over.. they vary in thickness from around 1/4 inch thick to almost an inch.
I can buy a truck load for $20.00. I bring home a truck load and sort them into roughly 3/4 inch thick and thicker, 1/2 thick and thicker, and 1/4 thick and thicker.. then run them through the planer and poof boards!
If you'd like to see some of my wood go to 94941.1and click down towards the bottom of the postings..
Wow, thanks for the info Frenchy, I would love to see the pictures. We are having walnut cabinets in the kitchen natural stain or oiled. And we have walnut stained floors at home which we love. We were originally going to go with the Black Walnut but it had to much grain in it, but boy what a beautiful wood. The floors in the cottage will be all light coloured limestone, 18 x 18 it is very airy and light in the cottage with large doors and windows, so I thought that a dark ceiling would look great with it. But you might be right, will have to check. We might end up having a light fllor and a light ceiing in wood and then have the trim work dark. We have 8' solid maple doors that will also need to be stained, might e to much dark wood.
I have just emailed the building inspector to get his comments. Since DH is a wood man we know about wood grain, colour and things like that. I am in the stone business so I also get the "variation" Might have taken me 5-6 years to understand the "variation but I did finally get it. The cottage roof has a 5-12 pitch, open concept.
I was looking at going to auctions, I do know of one place that is a mill that I will contact and see what they have. No we wouldn't purchase this from big box stores, we need 1,000 ft/2 and can't afford their prices.
Please post your pictures.
poorgirl
If you look over to the left there is a box called advanced search. scroll down there and enter 94941.1 that will get you to the pictures I posted.. You can see some more at 85981.1
I do apologize if I over explained things.. I never know just what level I'm discussing things with..
I'm a big fan of hardwood. My whole house is literally made with over 50,000 bd.ft. of hardwood. almost no plywood etc involved.. (just for a note all my hardwood cost me about $25,000. that's for black walnut, cherry, maple, white oak, etc..
I'm also a big fan of shellac as a finish..
please ask me about it's benefits.
Hi Frenchy, don't ever think you give to much information especially when you know whatyour talking about. The more the better. I am in the stone business and cannot tell people enough about variation from one piece to another. Anyway, Dh does not have the time to start from scratch using raw materials , even though he would love to have a job so he could use the big planer that's sitting around or maybe its a joiner. i don't know all I know is he hasn't used it but keeps looking at it.
We don't have to decide until the spring since we are almost finished for this year, just going to put the insulation on the walls by then we should be in a few feet of snow.
I have attached a few pics. there not the best but you can see what we built anyway. We are sorry that we had to use vinyl siding but money was the deciding factor, in the end it was still $8,000 for the siding. That is one job that dh didn't do, he has a height problem and the sides are pretty high.
The fall picture was taken last weekend.
thks again for your info.
Fantastic view isn't it? Nice workmanship from what I see..
As to working from the raw green wood, it's not terribly hard but it does take time.. Not much skill if I can do it <grin>.
Time wise if green wood is brought indoors and stickered up a month and a half or so during the winter heating season and the wood while not dry enough for furniture grade will be dry enough for your plans. If you have relatively high moisture there already due to new construction sheetrocking and painting etc.. make a plastic bag of poly and tape the seams.. then tape it around the entrance of a dehumidifier.. make sure you have a drain hose for all the moisture you're going to suck out.. or plan on dumping the water pan every 6-12 hours.. the first month or so.
Oh when you plane the wood, only plane one side.. the back side is fine rough! saves 1/2 the work!
(somewhere around 10% moisture is needed)
HI Frenchy, we shut it down for the winter, we are not ready to live in it yet. Next year we will be in it. The drywall will go up next spring, we will have to see there is a mill on the way to the cottage so we could see what he has. But he is also shutting down for the winter so we won't see him until the spring. Gives us something to think about over the winter. The view is what will make this place, it's a small bay on a large river so no big boating ,lots of fishing, canoes and kayaks. very nice and peaceful, big bon fires, big black flies and big mosquito's
OK think outside the box here.
I assume that you don't have your floors done yet either..
You are aware that flooring will go upside down too aren't you? Make your own flooring? I did..
I have black walnut floors as you can see. Really pretty simple work (hard but simple if you understand my meaning) so you can buy flooring or make flooring.. you can buy a ceiling or make a ceiling..
The finished costs exclusive of my labor were under $1.00 a sq.ft. that counts everything!
To have wood on hand next spring you'd have to do it this fall but by spring your home would be ready to fly!
Go to http://www.woodmizer.com and see who else in your area has wood for sale. There's gotta be dozens of sawmils in the area..
Ohhhhh Frenchy, what are you getting me into?? OK. I e-mailed them to see if they can suggest a few mills in the area around the cottage or where we live. You are right, I think DH has most of the tools, I am pretty sure it is a planer he has, some great big heavy machine. How did you finish /stain your floors once you planed and sanded , and why don't you have to plane the underside, don't you want the same thickness all the way thru.?
Our floors are travertine, honed and filled, counters will be granite. The cottage is a bungalow - 1200/ft2 open concept .
I will let you know what they say, in the meantime I know there is a mill advertised in the paper, I am going to contact them and see what they have.
Heh, heh, heh,
Gotcha!
Big ol grin!
Ok one at a time.. I don't need to worry because a planner makes the boards the same thickness no matter if one side is smooth or rough..
A jointer won't but you can achieve the same thing with care if you measure thickness as you run the boards over the jointer.. make a go-no-go gauge instead of taking time to measure each board. (faster and more accurite)
Using a router you can deal with the edge of boards or if you have a shaper it will go faster with less work..
Finally the great deal of shellac..
That's one of my real secrets.. I'm a lousy painter.. absolutely lousy as in more paint on me than I what I want painted. runs and drips are my specialty!
Yet if you look at the panels you'll note a wonderful flawless finish that's deep and rich without looking plasticy!
That's shellac..
The wonder finish!
It's been around letterly for thousands of years!
It's renewable, biodegradable, safe, (you've been eating shellac all of your life, it's on pills and candy) It's tough, beautiful (all fine antiques are done in shellac) durable, and so easily repaired you'll want small kids around so you can say Abra Cadabra as you make scratches disappear.. It dries insanely fast (first coat is ready to walk on 15 minutes after you apply it)
Oh and it's cheap too!
What's more I've figured out a way a complete dolt like me can apply it so people actually admire my work!
Before you stain look at the wood in my pictures.. especially the maple in the bathroom and the black walnut on my floors.. there is no stain on either of those..
You can stain same as awlays just make sure it's dry before you shellac..
If you want I'll gladly give step by step instructions on how to do a nice flawless finish!
OMG, my husband is going to kill me....anyway, sounds good so far. I will be the one that does the staining ,painting or shellacing, thats why I try and get as much stone in the house as possible because I don't ever have to do those things to stone. I even put marble shelves on the wall unit he built a few years ago. If I can bring my stone in cheaper than his wood, we do stone.
Anyway, he is building a wall unit in the theater room once he is done up north and he wants to build it out of walnut with a natural colour, I have tried oiling it ,staining it and I am not happy with the results, the grain is not coming out deep and rich. Can I shellac it.? We don't want a high gloss finish, but, please give me the step by step. Can I work with this stuff in the house or does in need to be done outdoors.?
O.K. send in the steps, I am going to show him your work, Ohhh I knew I didn't have anything to do for the next few months
Ok shellac
Painting anything on the ground is easier than doing it in the air.. stuff doesn't run down your arm pit. <grin>
So you can do it on the ground and then put it up.. I like flat and level so I'd put it on a pair of sawhorses..
Next when you sand the wood sand it to 220 grit.. You want beauty and depth without the plastic look right?
OK shellac itself.. buy a gallon of Zinssers ultra blonde (or clear shellac) and buy two gallons of denatured alcohol that will cover 500 sq.ft. mix them together.
Look I know what the instructions on the side say but please trust me and don't deviate.
apply the first coat.
This is critical! When appling this thinned shellac you must apply it really fast. flood it on. Let it self level (it will) don't dab or carefully stroke.. flood it on like it's water on a fire! Don't ever stop and go back over something you missed, keep going and get it the next coat.. Honest, it will start to dry the second your brush passes. If you stop and go back you will wind up with a mess..
(good news if you screw up just wipe up your mistake with some denatured alcohol.. )
it will dry in 15 minutes. and then take a 3M sanding sponge the fine 220 grit (yellow) one.
This is real scuff and shoot sanding.. What you are doing is the first coat raised the wood fibers somewhat and you need to sand them off. It goes extremely fast about a second to a second and a half per sq.foot.. If you run your hand over before it will feel like leg hair stubble. Afterwards it will be as smooth as a baby's butt. Now wipe up the white residue you made. Don't waste anytime trying to correct imperfections.. the next coat melts into the first coat and corrects itself.
Now apply the second coat.. same as the first!
fast and flood it on.. this coat will melt the first coat.
It takes twice as long to dry 1/2 hour instead of 15 minutes.. When dry check once again to ensure that that you didn't miss any nubs on the first coat.. if you did just go ahead and sand them off.. wipe up the white residue and go ahead and apply the third and most likely the final coat. (this will take an hour to dry, a fourth coat will take two hours etc)
As for work with shellac in the house? well I have and I'm really sensitive to most paint fumes.. If you're hyper sensitive open windows. What you are smelling is alcohol same as single malt scotch.. There is 2% of something to make it not drinkable usually something like methanol.. but we're talking about trace amounts here..
Shellac stops smelling as soon as it's dry.. Oh there's a soft gentle sweet smell as it hardens but that is a pleasant smell and quickly gone anyway.. I've shellaced in the morning and had guests over in the afternoon and nobody noticed any smell..
What I suggest you try is put a single coat on a test piece to see if you like the color.. (before you stain) .. If you don't like it wipe it off with denatured alcohol. just like erasing chaulk from a chaulk board.
Shellac comes in amber as well premixed and you might likee that.. you can also get all the way up to garnet color, but only in flakes.. (ask I'll explain how to mix them..) You'll note that the grain really pops!
A couple of points. If you spill shellac on your clothes just wash them.. it will wash right out.. don't rinse your paint brush (or whatever) let it dry next time you use it let it soak in the mix and it will soften back up..
OK water and shellac..
If you let water remain on shellac for many hours it will turn white.. but it needs many hours to do so and still all you need to do is wipe up the old shellac with denatured alcohol and reapply it. Remember new shellac melts old shellac and makes an invisable repair..
That's how to make scratches disappear. Got a deep scratch in your shellac? grab a rag dampen in denatured alcohol and rub back and forth and scratch-be-gone!
If you spill a drink on shellac don't worry. beer and booze is a very small percentage of alcohol even straight 20 year old single malt scotch is only about 40% alcohol (less on the rocks) wipe it up and don't worry!
Ammonia does take off shellac so don't use products that contain ammonia!
That's it! some shellac over 100 years old is still in fine shape and if it needs repair, well you now know how easy it is!
I've done it on the top of a 3 story great room, glued and screwed plywood over sheetrock into ceiling joists, glued each strip of prefinished flooring with pl premium and just brad nailed through the tongues since this wood the customer found was so hard anything else we tried split it. We also had to put perfect bevel cuts on all outside edges since he wanted no trim. Its been up for 5 years or so and looks as good as the day we put it up, lots of compliments. He liked it so much we did the ceiling in his porch the same way the following year. Was it easy- not really.
Hey Frenchie, we are going to try this on the wall unit . What I don't understand is how you "flood " it. DO you pour the stuff on the wood, take a roller and roll it on, take a rag and wipe it on.?
Let me know, I think DH will bring samples of wood home next week for me to experiment on.
When I say flood it on I mean just about like you're wet mopping a floor. You can use a brush*, a roller, an old rag, or just tip the bucket. (slight exageration there) I have sprayed it using this technque and it's like you start out with too much in one area to cause a giant run and just keep spraying in on as heavily as you go. Shellac is self leveling at this thinness and that's what you use.
PLease don't think for a minute that you can "paint" it on and wind up with something because shellac dries so fast that it actually dries as you apply it.. when you flood it on it on you avoid creating those ridges that occur as the shellac dries and you go back over it..
* my prefered application technique
One little point,, Frenchy is the masculine and Frenchie is the femine
Applies to Billy or Billie
Bobby or Bobbie etc.
Ohhhh sorry Frenchy. got to happy on my typing. So.... if you are wiping mounds of this stuff on, with a brush what do you have underneath your work horse so this stuff doesn't go all over the place. Do you have a tray of some sort to catch all the overage. Since we ar enow in the below cold weather this will have to be done inside.
Yes all my shellacin' has been done indoors (and I'm sensitive to fumes)
You will get a tiny little buzz from a lot of exposure to alcohol, probably about the same amount of a sip or so of wine or beer. The shellac it'self will have no effect whatsoever..
When you flood it on perfection is it spreads out to the very edge of the boards and goes no further.. Ha! good luck! <grin> What I do when I do a bunch of boards is line them up next to each other, that way what over flows from one goes onto the next one etc. and I waste less spilling it that way.. (do remember to pull them slightly apart after you do each board that way the don't stick together.. You can put towels or whatever underneath it and catch spills then toss them all in the wash and they come out none the worse for wear..
Shellac washes right out from clothes or anything you toss in the washing machine!
Edited 10/23/2008 3:14 pm ET by frenchy
Only a little buzz??? Ohhhh I forgot your drinking that American beer. Well back to work.... if i am doing panels for the wall unit would you still use a paint brush and lay the panel flat.?
Yes I love to fool gravity. It seems that I have a bunch of it around here and for whatever reason (my sloppy painting technique) it seems to work unevenly causing runs and drips. that's why I would rather work flat than vertical..
However with this overthinned approach I do all my timbers with my same flood it on approach and shellac just fixes itself.. Seriously if you could look at my timbers that I've shellaced they show absolutely no signs of runs yet when I slopped it on it was all runs!
(I love a finish that makes a painter look good!)
OH and I'm not a beer drinker.. I've probably drank a total of maybe 3 or 4 beers in my lifetime.. (never a whole can at once) I'm a whiner,, er wine drinker... <grin>
Edited 10/23/2008 3:59 pm ET by frenchy
Here is how I prefinish with shellac.I set up however many wide of the boards I can on a pair of sawhorses on the floor. If the boards are too long, I use three, so the wood isn't bouncing around.I use a roller and a4" brush. Pull the roller out and run it down 2-3 boards, then grab the brush and back-brush it - smoothing it out and making sure no dryspots or excessive at the edges. My helper be placing those finished ones on a stack while I move to the other side of the horses to do 2-3 more. He is meanwhile placing more on the original side of the horses so I can move back there agaiin. Constant motion.Shellac is alcohol based. Do it all day and the fumes will make you a happy girl.For flooring, I like to do both sides, so my setup is a little different. I have a 12" wide plank and lay 2-3 boards face down on the plank, rill the shellac on and backbrush, then flip them in place on the plank and hit the face. Then place them on the sticker pile drying.
The plank gets a darn good coat of finish by time I'm done. I guess you could say it is a happy plank.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I did some work in a house that had a cathedral ceiling that was done in birdseye maple. I think the first poster did not understand that you want the hardwood for its beauty, he must be a paint grade contractor. He is right, and with beauty comes cost, use thin material. Less wood, less cost and it just isn't needed.
Look into birdseye, it is amazing for a ceiling
I've found very few pieces of birdseye Maple in all the wood that my sawmill cuts every year. Most of my maple is fiddleback.
Imagine the joy I have when so much of the thins I bought were fidleback. My tower now has unique pieces of fiddleback on the rails syles and panels
I did save a few pieces of birdseye red oak for some place worthy of them..
didn't realize you had a mill. I need a friend like you!
What part of the country are you in and do you have any Idea where I could find american Red Gumwood?
Minnesota,
and isn't gum wood a southern tree?
Best advice go to http://www.woodmizer.com and see who has a sawmill around you.. ask them fortheir prices on it and If you don't need it instantly I'll bet you'll get all you want..
>and isn't gum wood a southern tree?<
if you're referring to Sweet Gums, that's not correct.
I believe Red Gum is Eucalyptus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucalyptus_camaldulensis
If she still wants a dark wood stain, I think birdseye would be a waste.
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We have to come back to the stain colour for the ceiling wood , I agree that it may be to dark , I will have to look at some pictures, I do know that we are not using pine and we do not want it looking yellow . maybe we will keep it light so I don't have to stain, just shellac. I don't know if the ceiling is suppose to be light than the floor and the floor is going to be light.
a general rule is to use darker colours lower in the room and lighter as you go up, similar to what Mother Nature does. Darker feels heavier and gives you a base to stand on.Also to keep in mind, maple does not take dark stain easily. If you are using maple and want dark, aniline dye might be the better way to colour it
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Well we have agreed that the ceiling should be light, Since we are doing the cathedral ceiling we would also like to have the boards going vertical not horizontal. We want the ceilings looking as high as possible.
We were told that if you have the boards going horizontal then the room would look longer. If we have the boards going vertical we would need 12' boards.
Can any one adise if we need to stagger the boards or can we use all one length.
much better looking and easier to apply if all the same length
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Thanks Piffin, I think this will be the way we will go.
Light Ceiling , going Vertical, boards all one length, shellaced with Frenchy's recipe.
Now I just have to find the wood. Any suggestions on what width the boards should be and what thickness we should be using.
You're right. didnt know ahe was goin dark.
Wow, Frenchy your house is beautiful. What a place you have built. Looks like it was a great "labour of Love" You are definately talented, what a work of art you have created.
I didn't see the ceilings completed, is there another area that you have pictures other than the 2 listed.
Edited 10/20/2008 2:59 pm ET by poorgirl
I need to get busy and post some more pictures. Sorta busy so I tend to put it off..
Since I take green rough wood from sawmill to finished product I tend to do most of the work myself.
There are 25 pictures on the one site and another 5 on 94941.1
Edited 10/20/2008 3:55 pm ET by frenchy
there are a couple of points nobody has thus far mentioned..
wood ceilings like that violate building code rules. you do need to put sheet rock up first. I know it's silly but thems da rules..
Don't give mis information, this ain't a POL!
The code states IRC R702.5 Wood veneer & hard board paneling shall be placed on wood or cold formed steel framing spaced not more then 16"oc . Wood veneer & hard board paneling less then 1/4" thickness, shall not have less then 3/8" gypsum board backer.
I think if you read the code regarding covering of insulation you will find it's not permitted.. I'm sorry it's been too long for me to remember chapter and verse but I do recall reading it in the UBC.
However I know of plenty of people who don't pay attention to that and thus far I've never heard of any inspector calling them on it.. (like I said)
Can anybody out there give a definite code reference to paneling over ceiling joists and studs? I ask because I am helping a friend in the building of his house, the interior to be all 3/4" T&G cedar, over ceiling rafters (yes, rafters), 24" O.C., and wall framing ranging from 16" O.C. to 24" O.C., much of it covered with plywood for shear strength. Other than for areas such as under stairwells, garage wall joining living area, etc., neither one of us was aware of any other drywall necessary, and it wasn't shown on engineered and approved plans. Would really appreciate some info here. Thanks.
One thing to consider about not having sheetrock on the ceilng with the joints taped, if all you have is the t&g boards you are inviting dust and dirt to filter down through the joints."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
If there is no movement of people and objects such as in a living space above, there is nothing happening to make lint and dust filter down through those joints. It doesn't happen.It is when the ceiling is also the floor of a timber frame that sawdust or other works into the cracks and then filters down with the movement of people walking over the years.
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Hard to give anything definitive without knowing your location.
In CA, most typical wood frame, single famlly dwellings are an R-3 occupancy, and a type V, non-rated construction.
The areas you mention, "under stairwells, garage wall/ceilings adjoining living area, etc.," typically are the only areas that require a rated assembly.
If you go to chapter 8, (interior finishes) of the IBC, the table should list R-3 occupancies as allowing material with a class III flame spread rating in rooms or areas. It will also say that material .25" thick or less needs to be applied directly to a non-combustible backing. Red cedar has a flame spread rating of 73, which is in the class II range.
Don't know if any of this applies to you, not knowing your location, but it might help you track down the specifics of your locale.
Thanks for the response, I will do a little more research based on your references. I am located in Oregon. The type of cedar hasn't been decided yet, could be western red, port orford, or incense, all of which are readily available at a decent price locally.
Here's a link to Oregons Residential Code
http://bulk.resource.org/codes.gov/or_residential.pdf
Check out section R315
Thanks very much. Checking the code and wwpa flame spread ratings show no problem with wood directly on framing.
Frenchy, she's in Canada. The UBC doesn't apply. Try the NBC.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
The UBC doesn't apply. Try the NBC.
Crazy Canucks ... using a tv network to design houses."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Heyyyy come on now, I used you guys to design the house. This forum has been designing this home for the past 3 years,, notice I did'n't use a Cdn forum to build cause we Canucks like the way u Americans think some times.
I did'n't use a Cdn forum to build cause we Canucks like the way u Americans think some times
That's funny; my BIL in Ohio makes a very good living selling Canadian-code insulation upgrades for McMansions that cost more to heat annually than it cost me to build my entire house.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Well..... it's really OBC... Ontario Building Code but it doesn't matter because there is no code for how we put something on the ceiling.
You are correct; the NBCC (National Building Code of Canada) is a 'model code' that is published by the National Research Council for the benefit of the provinces. The provinces are the AHJs according to the Constitution Act, and can develop their own provincial codes if they so choose.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I have contacted the building inspector and he has advised there is no code. So we can do what we want. But he does advise that most homes have strapped the ceiling.
I agree with you that a dark wood ceiling is depressing and makes a room seem smaller.but re the point of needing to sheetrock - that is not true in most places. She should check her local building dept. unless she lives in your town.
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I wish I lived in Frenchy's town..... guess who would be over shellacin
LOL, Frenchy and a poorgirl
Milling up a tree
S - H - EE - Lac - I - N - Gdefinitely do the finishing, whether shellac, stain, oil, poly or whatever before you install the ceiling.
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OMG your killin me, But i am pretty good at climbing trees. Yes we will finish the wood before installing it.
I have done 3/4" X 3-1/4" T&G red oak in my house twice on two different ceilings. In one case I had access above to vent the ceiling so I did not put a vapor barrier up. The second case was a cathedral ceiling and had no access after it was finished. I used close cell foam first.
In both cases I prefinished everything before installing it. I felt there would be less of a chance of white lines as humidity changed in the house. I purchased the material from a sawmill. I also let it sit in the house for at least 1 month before installing it so the material got acclimated to the humidity in the house. Sort of like you are suppose to do for hardwood flooring. I purchased a special fitting for the tip of my Senco finish nail gun that made positioning the gun a lot easier.
We have just had a BIBS (blow-in-blanket system) for insulation in the cathedral and the flat ceilings. Very nice compact, clena way to insulate.
When you contacted the mill did you specify a length of the boards. We would need a 12' board . Did you strap ,drywall or plywood the ceiling.
The first ceiling I did not specify the lengths of the boards. I could have for an up charge. They came in mostly 12' and 14' lengths anyway. That room was over 25' wide. I specified the lengths in the 2nd ceiling because it was a narrow room and long lengths would have been a big waste. I specified 8' lengths for that ceiling. I also sanded the material before finishing it. That was real easy when the material was down. I think the finish turns out much better than just staining and finishing the material.
Jay20, do you have some pictures you can add.
I will try and figure out how to add pictures. Both ceilings look great.
Educate me as I come from a place where strapping is not common. If the ceiling is strapped as recommended, won't the finish paneling end up running the same direction as the rafters? Seems odd to me. Or do you double strap so the boards can run across the rafters? Or am I confused about what strapping is? I think it's 1x's run across the rafters or ceiling joist at 16" oc. Thanks, John
You are quite correct; strapping generally results in the paneling running parallel to the rafters. As a matter of fact, many people prefer that look, especially with steeper ceilings.
But not all, of course. If you want the paneling to run perpendicular to the framing, you have to furr out the rafters by laying 1x stock along the length of them. This will not provide full-span airflow behind the paneling (as each rafter/stud bay will be isolated), but it will keep the paneling off the VB which is the most important consideration.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
here is a ceiling we built using 6" wide tongue and groove 3/4" clear red cedar with 1/4" edge bevels. as cedar is very soft, we had to be extremely careful not to mar the wood while handling and installing.
Very nice job.