I have a client that has a wrap around porch with SYP decking ran perpendicular from the house. The house was probably built in the 1920’s and the decking has been patched a couple of times and now needs replaced. He wants to go with a hardwood. He said he wanted Mahogany and I was thinking Ipe, using the clips, might be a more cost effective alternative. Then I started considering the application and thought maybe I better look into this a little more. The framing is ran 24″ center set up to run the decking perpendicular to the house. I check the framing underneath and to my surprise, it is in good condition but it looked really sparse, old 2X8 SYP running with the house with a 2×10 girder every 8 feet. My first inclination with the Ipe is to run it parallel to the house, meaning I would have to block out the frame. The weight of the added framing and that heavy Ipe means a pretty much total re-frame. Does any one have any suggestion. What T&G products are available and finishes? Thanks in advance.
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Why would you want to change the direction of the decking?
Let's not forget that it was laid perpendicular to the sidewalls so that it would promote good drainage -- water runs (at least theoretically) along the length of each board then goes under the railing ond then falls to the ground.
Concerning the framing, if the original is in good condition, and it has worked well for 80 years or so, then I'd think long and hard before adding to it or changing it.
Now, for the choice of woods........
Unless you're the lead dog, the view just never changes.
I think you are right. My initial reation to the situation using the Ipe. I don't think was a good one. This thing needs to remian a T&G affair, ran perpendicular. But yes what species. He sasid he got another estimate form a well known local design build and they recommended Brazillian Mahogany.
The traditional wood around here for porches built as you described would be T+G fir. Seal all edges before installation.
There are species of wood often called mahogany decking, such as Merenti, Camberra, and Mangaris, that would probably be fine in that application although I don't know if they come in T+G.
Ipe is great stuff but really hard, and hard to work with.
Brazilian mahogany is what is more often called Honduran Mahogany, the endangered tree traditionally used for furniture and boats.
Brazilian mahogany can also be a marketing term for African mahogany, which is actually two different species, Khaya and Sapele.
I would go with Fir or one of the plantation-grown mahoganies (Merenti et al), or Ipe.
there are other rot-resistant species options for the decking such as:
I'm plannning to take a bunch of white-oak 5/4 x 6 that I'm sawing on my swing-arm sawmill to a millwork guy to turn into T&G desking for me.
If I had the money I'd go with Ipe.
As far as the Ipe. I talked to a guy today at a local vendor. Ventilation is surely a factor. The underside of the decking is about four feet off of the soil, but the entire area is enclosed with the house on the one side and a stone wall all around the perimeter of the porch. I had a friend who did a small deck in Ipe using the Ipe clips. The client wanted the boards tight and he routed the Ipe to let in the spacer on the clip. The deck was about three rises off the ground if I remember correctly and the entire perimeter enclosed with a set of closed rise steps. Every board on the deck warped. And now they have to replace them. This has got me a little gun shy. I also found out that he did not seal his cuts. I was unaware of this (sealing the cuts) until I started looking into it. Anyone have any positive stories with Ipe to make me feel a little more confident. I'm planning on using four inch T&G Ipe at this point.
Edited 2/5/2007 5:56 pm ET by quicksilver
Ipe` is very strong so it can handle the 24"oc spanning, and is very stable. I place it 2" off roof decks on sleepers regularly with 1/8" spacing
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Piffin, what's your preferred way to attach the Ipe to the sleepers?
Trimhead GRK SS screws thru the face
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I used T&G Ipe for a small covered porch (open to weather on the front and sides) run perpendicular to the siding 4-5 years ago. It is holding up beautifully. Like has been said already, seal all end grain cuts. I used stainless steel trim head deck screws blind "nailed" into the joists after predrilling from the tongue side. It was time-consuming, but it was a small deck. Plenty of weather has not caused anything more than some superficial checking near the ends of boards and very minor cupping. I seal the deck every year or two to maintain the beautiful color of the wood, but my understanding is that this is not necessary for the longevity of the product.
Conrad
The Audubon Society has built an Ipe deck through their Corkscrew sanctuary west of Naples, Florida. It's in a swamp and been there for years. I just got back from there, and it's a marvel. I thought it was as interesting as the bird watching.
The walkway (not actually a deck) is not enclosed underneath, but it goes over standing water and is exposed to some of the harshest environmental conditions you could ever subject wood to. Its still beautiful. It's fashioned with Ipe posts as well. I bet it costs plenty. It's fastened with SS screws through the face. There are close to 2 miles of it.
I used to work in Naples. I lived in outside of Fort Myers as a kid for a while and walked on that deck in the corkscrew sanctuary then. Funny someone should bring it up all those years later. Do you think its over 30 years old or one that's rebuilt. I know that the sun down there is murder on wood. We would spend the time to get some redwood barge rafters just so and come back a month later and it looked like a hack job.
I was there also in the late 60's or early 70's and I don't know if it the same. They have built a new observation deck over the prairie and you can see the difference in the color of the wood, but the old stuff is sound, straight and hard as woodpecker lips.
Hey, how's things in the DC area?
I've been looking at a redecking job too, so your post caught my eye...
"he routed the Ipe to let in the spacer on the clip. The deck was about three rises off the ground if I remember correctly and the entire perimeter enclosed with a set of closed rise steps. Every board on the deck warped."
Well...no wonder it warped....I wouldn't let this scare you off Ipe.
I've been looking at Tendura T&G....since the Fir on the one I'm getting ready to do hasn't lasted but a year or so in spots. At this point, unless you can pick & mill the wood yourself, or really trust your supplier, I'd be shy of using wood. It's not that I think they cheat you, it's just that there isn't much old growth out there anymore..
Let us know what you decide on
The decking should always run perpendicualr to the house whenever possible. This leads 85-90% of the water away from foundation
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If this all has a roof over and he is interested in the traditional look, Tendura would be an option to offer too.
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Thanks for the advice. I'll check on the Tendura. Now how about a look at my thread on the leaky shower pan in construction techniques. I'd appreciate your advice there too.
Maybe, but I'm not a plumber
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The Tendura looks sweet. What's the price like? I'm not a plumber either, but a respect a good carpenter builder's horse-sense.
I don't remember. Get it priced at local supplier - find that thru their website.Definitely higher than fir that it copies, but no painting required evens out the cost.
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When I ran a search on Tendura through google, some homeowner forums came up below. I looked through and there was a lot of complaint about dis-coloration due to sun exposure. And a couple complaints about warping. The main thing I'm worrying about is that this porch has a stone perimeter wall around the outside perimeter. Ther is about four feet of air space below it, bone dry for years and easily accessed from a door in the basement. The air space is a plus but the lack of ventilation coupled with my research has got me the jitters. I wouldn't have worried at all if I hadn't called my friend and asked him how his Ipe deck faired. What do you think about the ventilation?