I’m sure I have a unique problem … DW has way too many pots & pans for the available space. And way too many dishes. I really don’t know what keeps the upper cabinets from falling off the wall. She has one 30″ base cabinet that holds a ton of glass baking dishes, and she’s always complaining that they are hard to get to. So I plan to add two pullout shelves.
I ordered two pair of full extension slides from Lee Valley, 100 pound per pair rating. I’m going to build a drawer-shelf that will be concealed behind the cabinet doors. Each shelf will be 22″ deep x about 26″ wide with sides and back about 6″ high (clear inside height) and a lower front. I think if the sides are higher she will assume that it can be loaded up like a flour bin.
So the question is … how do I build the shelves? I’m thinking 3/4 ply sides and bottom. How do I connect the bottom? 1/4″ deep dados to accept the full thickness bottom?. How much lip should there be under the dado … 1/2″? I assume the bottom should be glued to the sides, is there a benefit to adding screws? This shelf will not be visible unless it’s pulled out, so I think sturdiness rules over style.
Should I exchange the slides for 150 pound rating?
“Put your creed in your deed.” Emerson
“When asked if you can do something, tell’em “Why certainly I can”, then get busy and find a way to do it.” T. Roosevelt
Replies
Decide on your drawer slides first. I'd go with 150#. If they are side mounts, I don't think there's to much to consider with respect to the design. If they are bottom mounts, they will likely dictate how much lip there should be under the dado.
I would dado the bottom into the sides, and plow dados into the sides to receive the front and backs. 3/4" sides is appropriate, you could probably get away with 1/2" bottoms, but nothing wrong with 3/4" bottoms either. Glue and screw (countersunk)the joints in the sides, the bottom panel can float in the dado, I don't see the need to screw the bottom if it is let into dados on the sides.
For the front, I'd make the ends of the front panel the full height of the drawer for a stronger joint, then cut down the center part of the drawer front with a jigsaw if you want it lower.
Good points. My concern on the lip under the dado is that I want enough support forthe drawer bottom. I already know that it will me loaded heavily. We had a drawer in a kitchen 20 yrs ago that DW put pots in, lots of cast iron, and after about a year the 1/4 ply bottom sagged enough to pull out of the dados."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Use accuride guides and shallow 4" deep drawer, all out of 3/4" baltic birch, I'd dado the bottom into the sides, front and back 1/2" above the bottom of the sides, for blowout strength. Radius the top of the sides, front. back and add a hand scoop is necessary.
ML
Personally, I wouldnt use the Lee Valley hardware. Its the same import that most sell. I suggest you find an Accurides or Blum dealer. I think your basic design will work fine. Baltic Birch makes for great drawers.
Brad
I made mine similar to what RedfordHenry describes, but mine is a wide, shallow drawer. It has a 4" high front, tapered sides and the back is 10" deep. Didn't want to have to crawl around & rescue something that had slipped off the back ;-)
Use 3/4 for the bottom, and rabbet it to 3/8" or 1/2" for inserting in a 3/8" deep dado in the sides. It's not solid wood so, no need to float the bottom, staple it or nail it or screw it and glue the heck out of it. I dado the front the same way, but often not the back, just let it die ON the bottom and attach from under.
1/2" of wood left below the side dado is pretty standard for most drawer glides, and side mount don't care anyway.
I use a sliding dovetail on the side to front joint, but if you have a sub front, screw it and attach a finished front from inside the drawer.
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I have a drawer in my kitchen that is 14" deep x 26" wide x 22" long (front to back) and built to hold baking sheets, pot lids and miscellaneous larger items with dividers. I made the drawer box out of 1/2" baltic birch ply, glued and pocket screwed, and a 1/2" BBply bottom, slid in place and screwed only. It's been in place over year, plenty strong, no problems, no sag. I have a few others that are the same length by width but shallower, and they are all the same construction. I also built some trays that will show when the doors are open and I screwed the sides together directly with trim head screws and glue and counterbored with walnut plugs. They look good.
I used 125 lb rated tray slides from Accuride for all the bigger drawers in the kitchen. I also have three drawers that use 200 lb slides because they hold dinnerware and glass baking dishes like yours.
So you think the 100# slides are too light?"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Eddie,
I've done this. consider incoreasing the drawers to a total stack of 4. The existing top drawer, and three in the door/shelf space.
I measured the height of my pots and pans. Including their tops ( laid upside down on top of the pan/pot), three drawers work perfectly. I have the full Caphalon set. You'll need all three drawers for the pots and pans and tops.
You'll also find out that you can increase the storage in that cainet by 50% by doing so and taking the time to measure exactly what their heights need to be.
Then she stores her baking pans and dishes in the wall cabs - unless you can score another base cab for conversion.
BUT, and most importantly, you don't put doors back over these drawers. That one simple act screws up most of the benefits gained by the drawer conversion.
You put drawer fronts on them and line them up in the exact space of the original door.
100# slides are overkill but nice to have. Full extension is necessary.
This project is one of the most treasured by the person using the kitchen.
The drawers with the heavy slides are on the bottom of each cabinet, and I have kids that I can't second-guess their ability to wreck things. I've had my four-year-old already try to pull the drawers out to stand in them to see up or reach up to the counter. Plus, a drawer that big, full of glass and ceramic, is heavy. I ain't takin' no chances....
Before you start believing all these guys who want to overbuild your kitchen with your money, consider this.
Calphalon's 9-piece set of pro cookware, a whole lot of big things that you cannot get into one drawer, weighs 25 pounds for the lot.
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"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
Yeah, but I weighed on glass casserole dish and top on the kitchen scale, and it was 5 pounds. then I started counting the number of pieces on the bottom shelf and realized i wouldn't have much of a problem getting up to 20 pieces ... that's a hundred pounds.
And to someone else, I had already realized that replacing the doors with draweer fronts would be smart. I'm also considering replacing the double top drawers with one wide drawer of the same height."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Eddie, Eddie, gimme a break.
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This Anchor Hocking glass cookware set has a shipping weight of only 16 pounds. Subtract out the plastic parts and the shipping container and packing, and you are telling me your wife is going to place over seven times this amount of glassware on one pullout shelf?
Cooking for a large family, Eddie?
May God be with you. You aren't looking for kitchen drawers. You need freight pallets, mounted on heavy casters.
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"A stripe is just as real as a dadgummed flower."
Gene Davis 1920-1985
Ditto the Accuride or Blum's. Lee Valley will probably be import stuff. Not bad. But for the money you can get higher quality from a wholesaler like Cabinetparts.com
Built a pull out shelf on a boat at work for a dive tank compressor. easy 150lb machine. used accuride slides. construction was 3/4 sides and bottom. 3/8x3/4 dadoes with 3/4 remaining on edge. poly glued and stapled, then veneered over. I believe it would hold just fine without the staples, just increased productivity on the project. Slides perfect and no sags wiggles or unwanted movement until a yard out west dropped the boat on the ground from their lift.
25" deep x 36" wide x 13" tall; 1/2" 9-ply sides & bottoms; Blum Tandem glides (125#) - rock solid & never fails to impress when we open it :-)
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Here's the whole stack - lids in the top drawer
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Edited 2/3/2009 10:35 pm by wrudiger
Very nice. I'm not familiar with Blum tandems. Are rthey bottom mount?"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Yep, bottom mount, smooth & quiet. wwhardware.com is an outstanding source for price, selection and service.
Yes! Blum Tantem's are really good!
Accurides never operate smoothly and the first inch is a pain. I just installed another set a few weeks ago and was unhappy again.
OB