*
I need some advice on a project that I wrapped up after almost a year on the job. We had a contracted amount to rebuild an existing house and add an addition. The electrical and plumbing were both on a T&M basis because nobody would give a fixed bid for a remodel such as this. The owner complained about the estimate being to high but eventually signed a contract. Just as we were finishing up framing and starting all our above ground rough in the homeowner decided upon a few changes including a second bath, a pantry in the kitchen and 2 extra closets. I told her we could indeed take care of the additions on a T&M basis as spelled out in our contract. I obtained a signed change order and the work commenced. Well, now she doesn’t want to pay for the extras she asked for. She also decided to change almost every finish detail in the house at one time or another, including breaking into my jobsite to drop off some bath and lighting fixtures. The problem with this is that she refused to consider design details (cabinets # and type, paint colors, tile colors, carpet, etc.) when we were starting this contract so I picked the materials used myself (all inexpensive budget items except the tile shower and kitchen counter) and stated in the contract that I held all rights as far as selection of materials was concerned. Well, one thing escalated into another and I ended up spending 600 miles on the road and 30 some hours dealing with her endless pestering about what colors of paint and tile I had selected along with the accompanying “ohh dear that won’t look good” and “I don’t know about that” so I allowed her to choose her own materials and charged extra for the time needed to install the items and make the proper changes. All of this ended up costing endless time on the jobsite and we ended up finishing nearly 2 months after our compeltion date. The problem is that most of our delays were due to her actions and ignoring our contract. Additionally, and perhaps I should have mentioned this at the beginning, but she didn’t pay me on schedule from the very beginning of our contract, making payments of $20,000, $15,000, $10,000 and finally $946.00. All of these monies were actually due Nov 15,99 but I didn’t receive the $946.00 until 2/21/2000 (it stated clearly that the entire $45,946.00 was due at the start of the contract and no work would be completed until it was paid in full. Also, because she stalled the inital demolition contract and our contract to pour a foundation under the existing house as well as my next proposal for the rebuild I added a clause that allowed me to charge an extra 10% for the job if payment wasn’t made all at once and promptly (I called it an inclement weather fee and as it was approaching winter at the time and we live in Colorado at 10,200 feet I wasn’t wanting to pour an addition in the winter). So, after she decides not to pay me on schedule at all, I used the date of her last installment payment (Feb 21, 2000) as our start of contract date. Thus, I am not in default as far as our completion clause goes and I am not subject to the $50.00 a day fine for being late. Is this correct as far as contractual law goes? Also she is disputing the plumbing bill, saying that It is way too high. We initally estimated $4800.00 for the work but with the addition of the second bath, the dificulty in roughing in the underground during winter (5′ frost line and 20 below zero at night easy), and a number of changes she made ended up bringing the total to about $9000.00. Her logic is that if one bath costs a couple of thousand to plumb why did the next smaller bath cost almost twice as much? I explained the 10″ – 20″ crawlspace clearance during rough in and the fact that we had allready completed most of the rough in as the primary cause (it costs more to change the floorplan once framing is complete). Now I have my electrician, plumber and lumber yard after me for the money I owe them (about $5600.00) but she owes me close to $12,000. I am scrambling to take care of my suppliers and subs and am considering selling my firearms to do it. What can I do at this point? She says that I owe her punchwork but wont give me a list to take care of. She allready moved tenants into the house (the day we met for her walkthrough in fact) and I can’t just “pop by” to take care of any situation. We got our CO July 31, and she still hasn’t paid and is still disputing the bill! HELP!!
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I bet those qualified to answer come up with something like this. Pay the subs, it's your problem, not theirs. Get a lawyer. Quick. Not much anyone here can do. Let us know how it turns out. Jeff
*Erik,Very, very hard to tell ya what to do AFTER the fact. You made a lot of mistakes during the course of the job, and now it is hindsight. You should never have continued the job when the first installment was late. That should have been the stopping point, and no further work by you should have been done until you were payed up to date. Now that the work has been completed, and you haven't been paid in full, and the bill is being contested, you really need to hire legal counsel.You need counsel because the laws and rules vary city by city, county by county, and state by state. What your rights may be here aren't necessarily what your rights will be in Colorado.I feel your pain and anguish, and wish I could help.near the ditch...James "Life is Hard" DuHamel
*Erik, find out what your lien rights are. Here in Tennessee when the job is completed, a "notice of completion" is filed at the court house. This notice is placed in the newspaper and creditors have 10 days on residential work and 30 days on commercial work to present bills for unpayed balances. These usually go to the lender involved who can not close the loan until the title is cleared again. As the general contractor, I usually file the notice personally after our contract has been completed and all monies have been paid.Hopefully your state will have a similar lien law and you will still have some leverage to extract payment.
*In the expressive words of the immortal Mitch Rider, "Good Golly Miss Molly" , or to quote Laurel and Hardy, "This is another fine mess", Eric, you have at this point an impossible situation to resolve to your satisfaction.Forget the attorney at this point, unless your motivation to go after this client is driven purely by morality. The 12K that is outstanding will hardly fuel the legal beagles for an extend fight either in or out of court. The best that could happen with this vehicle of pursuit is that your client *might* be inclined to settle to avoid her legal fees, but not in your favor. Because you haven’t mentioned it, I am assuming that your contract does not specify binding arbitration according to the American Arbitration Association. This, I think, would be the best route to take here if you could somehow convince your client to agree. The cost here is far less than court, somewhat quicker, but unfortunately, the arbitrator will tend to take king Solomon’s approach and "Split the Baby".Your lien rights may still apply if your time limit has not expired. Here in Maryland, the lien is difficult to obtain by the GC but very easy for the subs. So, perhaps each of your subs should lien the job as well.You asked for help or advise. Perhaps you should recover what you can, pay your subs and then visit an attorney that specializes in construction disputes. Examine and revise your contract to have contingencies and clear language for all eventualities - including change order procedures, allowance items, payment, mediation, arbitration and extra work not provided for in the specs.
*Eric: I've been near to where you are and you have my empathy.Here's Colorado Lien Law per American Subcontractors Associationstart partial quote----Rights Available: Mechanics lien; claims against the disburser of construction funds.Who May Claim: Contractors, subcontractors, materialmen and laborers. Second-tier materialmen are not entitled.Required Notice and Timing: Written notice of intent to file a lien statement must be served to the owner and general contractor at least 10 days before recording of the lienLien Filing: A lien must be filed within four months of furnishing last work and materials {some possible extensions}Suit filing: Suit must be filed within six months after the last labor...MILESTONE ALERTS: Four months after last work, 10 days prior notice,...end of quote*****Experience, I'm sure, tells you that liens and suits don't do much to get you your money in a timely manner. Suits must be turned into levy and my elected sheriff seems to take 'b' 4 YEARSto get off the can and actually approach asset holders.If there is any way to legally bring enough pressure against your debtor (possible notify tenant, publish notice of non-payment, etc) go for it.Best of luck to you and let us know how you proceed.
*Over the past year I have read everything in this business section, trying to get a better grip on the business aspect of our profession. I'm no one to give advice, but I will say that your contract needs work. 30 years ago, one of my mentors told me that on t+m work, he bills after the first week, if he doesn't get paid promptly, he doesn't work until the dispute is settled, and therefore never exposes himself for more than one week. That is simplified, of course. But that type of thinking - limiting your exposure - is what I'm talking about in regard to your contract.Here's the best I can tell you. Read this board. Pay attention to who's words ring true to your situation. Get in touch with those folks and ask if they'd be willing to share info with you about their standard contracts. Most will. They have with me, and because of their help, I am currently working on a contract I'll be comfortable using, after relying on handshakes and trust for all these years.Now I realize this won't help you much in your current situation, but it might give you the confidence to stick with the profession, even if you take it in the shorts in your current mess. Try to learn from your mistakes and hang in there, whatever it takes. We need all the pros we can find.
*well, i'd second the two jims.. and my advice would almost be word for word with jiM irvine...course i've already got a binding arbitration clause..get help from a lawyer if you ave doubts about the lien.. but the lien will probably only pay off in the future.. when she trys to sell the property andd wnats to clear the title.. might make a nice christmas present or pay for a tuition bill ..file the lien.. have an attorney write a letter.. but cut your losses and move on....i'd be leary of court..do you have signed Change AOrders ?.. guess not ..hey.. ?figure this as a down payment on your MBA..sorry buddy..
*Eric, there is always the Chicago or Detroit way for getting your money.No help in your current situation, but here's a few of things to remember in the future:1. Before signing a contract, look for clues of potential problems. Your first one was their comment that the estimate was too high, "but eventually signed the contract." Obviously, other blatant clues came up afterwards as well, still not to late to get out. A carpenter self employed friend who talked me inito getting into this business told be that it is natural for a customer to perhaps question the price, or ask if you could sharpen your pencil a little. If however, they mention it more than once, or get pushy about the price, walk away. His contention was, and I found out was correct, that those who push for a better price, but "eventually sign the contract", have no intention of honoring it. Also, we can't repossess what is already installed. To that degree, they have us over a barrel.2. I actually "review" potential jobs using a list I created for the pros and cons of the job. On that list, item #1 is the "potential" net profit. Say it's a $50,000 project with an anticipated net profit of 10% - or $5000. I then weigh that "potential" $5000 against the potential "loses" should problems occur. The potential loses include grief and sleepless nights. If the items on my list of cons, out weigh the pros, I tactfully walk away from the job.As stated by many before me, you never loose any money on a job you didn't take.Make a list. Read between the lines of comments made and exercise extreme caution. Loosing one's rear end on a $2000 job is one thing, on one of the size of your situation is quite another. When I got my first big job - about $30,000, it scared the hell out of me, and for the reasons above. since then, I'd done jobs over $250,000, and still always got nervous. You can be as friendly as can be with clients. Do not let any "appearance" of friendship cloud the fact that that with 95% of people, when a substantial amount of money is involved, "they" almost always revert back to being the vicious animals we were thousands of years ago. I think one of the best contracts I saw regarding payments was in fact from Jim Irvine several ysears ago on the RO site. It stated somenting like:"X" amount of money is due upon completion of ............................................Upon receipt of that "X", work will resume.Note the key words "work will resume" which says one hell of a lot. That puts the onus on them to pay the payouts when due, and eliminates the necessitiy of you having gto bug them for it. If they want to take one day or one month doesn't matter because "Work will resume" when it is recieved, regardless if "The check is in the mail. or "I'll give it to you the day after tomorrow.", or what ever. Work will STILL not resume until you have it in your hand.That fact that we cannot reposses puts us at a disadvantage. The above levels the playing field and lets them know that we contend that this is a serious business game we are playing, and you are not naive. Finally, never forget, you are a businessman 1st, and a remodeler 2nd. Act accordingly - always.Never let the "romance" of any project effect your "business" judgement.
*Erik,There's one in every crowd. I hope this is your last.Whatever you do, try to keep the lawyers out of it. They are the only ones who will come out ahead in this situation. If you go to court, you will be sorry you did. It will cost you far more than the 12K. Trust me on this one Bubba. Ed. Williams
*Thanks all for the advice, fortunately I do have a decent legal clause in my contract that allows for all legal fees, my time at $60.00 an hour plus attorney fees for collections/court proceedings. Perhaps I need a better clause but I am unsure at this point. I have a contract lawyer that my wife and I have used in the past who is willing to draft a $250.00 letter stating our case and desire for payment, and alas other than a lean that will probably be as far as I take it. My hope is that she does pay me enough that the balance due will be suable in small claims (dunno if that is even possible with a case like this?) and I could defend myself. Fortuanately for me I also possess that signed change order that was in question as well as enough correspondence from her to prove my case (in my mind anyway, hard to be impartial) should I have to go to court. Personally it would almos be worth a years salary to sink her financially since that is most definately what she is doing to me! Again, thanks all, g'night.
*Erik, you got some great advice here. The upside is you benefit from someone else's pitfalls. The downside is someone had to take the fall in order to pass on their hardearned knowledge.You're on the downside. Dude, you exposed yourself way too much. What were you thinking? You say you have signed change orders. That's good. But not enough. People can and do claim duress, expectations of performance unmet, or even forgery when reminded of the CO.You have kept a daily job log, right? RIGHT?Sadly, whatever happens 'tween you and the old gal is your biz, but you better make good to your subs and materialmen, pronto. It's the shits, bro. Best wishes.
*Erik,As Jim said your contract needs some work. I also think that your salesmanship is in dire need of an overhaul. Please don't take that the wrong way. It's meant to be constructive and you can take it for what it's worth.Your bid was too high. Client reluctantly signed contract. The contract should have never been offered for acceptance to begin with. That's a major RED FLAG for future problems. You should have told her to shop elsewhere and compare. If you were called back fine, if not you just passed the headaches you now have onto some other poor sole.The CLIENT is going to live in the house, (or rent it) but it is the client that is going to feel comfortable with the interior design details, NOT YOU. If this client was too busy to take the time out to choose colors of paint, types of tile, etc. when she's putting all this money into her piece of real estate, this is another RED FLAG. The Scope of Work in my contracts spell-out every single detail from framing to finish, materials, CLIENT chosen colors etc. A deviation from Ricks first visit close but anyway.I'm going to reiterate that I mean no offense to you and believe me I feel for you because I know the value of a good firearm but this is all hindsight and I hope it prevents you from getting in this position again.Payment schedule is the most important, in my opinion, part of the contract. Clients are given a written notice 24 hrs. before payment is due. No payment all work will cease. Got their house torn apart and pull off the job because no money they'll cough it up real quick!! Fortunately I've only had to do that one time. Payment schedule must be aggresive. I'm sure you know about that. I myself would have walked away from this job at the very begining.Just a short message: Rick, Sonny, and Peter. I'm finally getting to become a salesman and develope a good business acumen. Thanks for all your help!!
*On a side note to those who may know. Can we reposses? I must admit, the last time I was having trouble collecting the final payment, fantasy's of climbing up on the roof and carefully removing the shingles one by one filled my heart! Not that it would ever happen, but could you legally "dismantle" the structure, stack it neatly, deduct the labor charge, and leave a bill for materials provided? I think everyone I've ever talked to has had this fantasy at one time or another....on paper does it work? Jeff
*Rick Ritivoy has the best payment schedule I've seen in the business. All jobs are signed as a mortgage (1st or 2nd) against the property. If the prospect doesn't pay, he has all the rights of a lender including foreclosure. Very smart.
*Just a word of caution on 2nd and subsequent mortgages--They must be filed to be effective.They should be done right or the mortgagor stands liable for clouding a title. The property owner could sue and could win damages!!A confession of judgement serves the same purpose - but what credit worthy customer would sign such an instrument?
*Jeff - it's my understanding that once materials are delivered to the job, they become legal property of the property owner.
*In my jurisdiction...not once it is installed. Learned this the hard way, when a big US call centre company strung me out for four months (not just for final payment, for the whole thing. I'm as stupid as they are slimy). I couldn't believe how little control I had once it's installed.
*those are the type of home improvement contracts that Fleet Bank was backing with contractors down south.. they got a couple million dollars worth of well deserved BAD publicity out of the deal..too many poor people losing their homes to unscrupulous contractors and onerous interest ratesnot that rick is doing that.. but like the man said.. which of my credit worthy customers is going to sign a land contract (or second mortgage ) like that...
*Erik...Big lesson to learn...I too think you set yourself up for all kinds of problems...Good luck, clear up as best as ya can...then move on doing what is working and deleting was isn't...Keep working and hold your head high.Sonny...I like this!...i Work will resume when it(the payment) is received...In my next contract, near the stream,ajOne word about too many teeth in a contract...trust must be given to be received...
*aj... or, as joel's grampa used to say..((The ones you can't trust are the ones that don't trust you.". ))
*Yo Mike...we're saying the same...trust is either possible, two way, and built upon...or not...if not, best to run away!near the stream,aj
*As I've said before - trust everyone, but make your contracts for the opposite to happen. Anything different is foolish.
*Sonny....I don't trust everyone and I walk away from some....near the stream,aj
*Whelp, bit of news, I had it out with my client and threatened a join lawsuit against her. Needless to say it wasn't very pleasant but I got a $3000.00 direct deposit into my account this morning. She seems to be seeing the light. Now all I need is for her to pony up the other $8700.00. Maybe an easy payment plan.....We also picked up our lean paperwork and intend to send a "notice of intent to lean property" tomorrow morning, almost missed the deadline to do so. Thanks all for the help! Keep your sanity and if you find mine lemme know....
*hey erik.... thanks for the update.. usually we never find out what happened.....
*Erik,I have found that the "notice of intent to lien" can really shake up some people. It has a certain reality to it that verbal threats to lien don't carry. Of course, I've had the occasional recalcitrant customer who is not the least bit intimidated by a lien. Good luck to you, I've been down that road too many times.John
*I was burnt awhile back on a small job, labor only though. Now my contract covers my ass with a 4 I 8 sheet of plywood and if I really feel leer I make sure I cover my ass with the whole lift of plywood.A contractor friend of mine poured some concrete sidewalks and driveway. The homeowner stalled and made excuses for about a week. So he had enough and showed up on her door step with a concrete breaker and politely told her pay up or the concrete was leaving with him. She paid right away. Some people are better at dealing with homeowners than others, I myself now find commercial better because at least your dealing with people who understand the construction industry and are not so willing to make changes. Changes usually cost them to much.
*OK, but could ya "un-labor" the project and leave it stacked neatly for the next builder? You know, carefully pop each shingle and pull all the studs and leave 'em just as ya found them. Then subtract your labor from the bill, leaving them just the mayerials on site to pay for. Hey, a boy can dream..... Jeff
*Many of us have thought of "removing work because it was installed wrong".....never tried it though as escalation leads to bleeding...near the stream walking or running from confrontations,aj
*remember the movie Patton... when he slapped the soldier in tangiers..after his whole life fell apart and he thought his career was over, he told Ike.. "" I wish i had kissed the guy"..don't go trying to pull your materials or installations out of a bad customer's home.. if it all blows up in your face, and he gets a legal judgement against you..you could wind up wishing you had kissed the guy....
*I remember a situation at least 15 yrs. ago. A paving contractor had been owed money on a job for over a year. He gave the owner an ultimatum. Pay up or the paving comes out. That's exactly what he did! By the time the police got there he had about 1/3 of the lot torn up, the cops made him stop, arrested him for vandalism or destruction of property, whatever. The upshot was he had to repair the damages, and the non-payment was still considered a seperate issue. I never heard if he eventually collected or not. I doubt it though.John
*Don't you guys use contracts that say something like "all materials remain the property of the contractor until final payment is made"?Obviously you can't recover lost time, but doesn't that give you legal right to come and take all your materials without the police being able to do anything.Of course this is all a what if scenario. The best course of action is to never get yourself into this kind of situation. (Easier said than done).
*you can't have a contract that is contrary to law..once it's installed , it is part of the house, and the owner of the house, and his mortgagers are the owner of the material...
*The only way you could do what J Belcher says is if the material is onsite but not yet installed. Which reminds me of the dispute I got into with the owner on a job. Since we were beyond reason, I just decided to suck it up and abandon the job. I took all the material off the job. This meant I took every last nail and scrap of wood; anything I thought had value. His thinking of how he was going to profit from material unpaid for quickly evaporated. First he accused me of theft, then he wanted to retry working out the personal problems.I've thought about destroying work after installation, but as it is criminal I'd rather not.
*Of course, in reality, removing the finished product is neither feasible nor legal ... but, I've got to admit that just the thought of doing it was extremely satisfying and helped (somewhat) to ease the sting of losing the money. Just sat back and imagined removing the project piece by ever-lovin' piece ... aaaaaaahhhhhhhhh :)In the contract that Mercer referred to above, the customer made a practice of cheating all contractors who did work for her out of their final 10%. She was well known for it. This we found out AFTER our own contribution. When we consulted a lawyer about it, we learned we had a 50/50 chance of winning due to the wording of our contract, and those odds didn't stack up against the money owed. So, we kissed her ... and revised our contract!
*Kathryn - would you mind posting what your contract said, and what you changed it to? Thanks - Jim
*Jim, I am embarrassed to say that the first contract was woefully lacking in many important things. The project was done for a "friend of a friend", and as a result was treated far too casually. It was a lesson hard learned, not to let friendship (even second-hand) get in the way of proper business practices. The contract covered the work to be done, the time frame for the project, the total amount of the bid, and the payment schedule. Many other things were verbal, and unfortunately not recorded. (I can hear the collective gasp --- as I said, embarrassing.) One of those verbal agreements was that the hubby was going to help Mercer with whatever he could, demo and such. Our recollection is that we stated at that time no adjustment of the contract price would be made in consideration of his labor. After the fact, one of the reasons that Mrs. decided she didn't owe us was because we owed hubby for labor wages. She didn't recall the same conversation we did, apparently.Part of the project was extending their existing single carport into a double carport. At the point on the exterior wall where the existing carport roof had to be removed, the stucco had to be cut back marginally (8" or 10") to allow for installation of new roof and flashing. Unfortunately we did not IN ADVANCE stipulate to Mrs. that this was going to happen. And we didn't include stucco repair in the contract. Didn't occur to either of us, as we considered our contract to be framing only, not finishing, and they didn't indicate to us at the outset that they wanted us to involve any sub-trades. Our feeling was that they were the GC, not us. Bad, bad, bad. Another reason for her not to pay. The lawyer said that because we had not specifically told her about this stucco repair up front, and because many facets of the contract were verbal, we wouldn't have much of a legal leg to stand on. We sent a stucco pro to look at it, we offered to do the repair, but by that point she had stopped cooperating altogether, we tried to talk to her, but she made no further contact with us. We noticed many months later that it was still not done, so it would appear that it was not that great a concern to her, just a convenient loophole.So, existing contract includes: - homeowner name/address and address of project;- extremely specific outline of project details, down to the last nail, listing both items included and excluded;- statement as to anticipated length of project, with disclaimer that we will make every effort to stay within quoted time and cost, but either may change due to unforeseen circumstances beyond our control (specifically for a new house we built) e.g. if soil conditions prove to be unacceptable to local authorities after excavation, and extra work is required by us and extra excavation and/or replacement of fill is required. - specific statement as to whether or not we are required to be involved in the hiring of sub-trades or in any way involved in their work;- if changes to the building plan are proposed by the homeowner right away and are included in the bid, those changes are itemized;- changes prior to commencement of the project will be provided in writing and may be subject to a revised bid;- we are only liable to perform and homeowner is only liable to pay for extra services that are agreed upon between the parties and authorized in writing, setting the price for such extra services and signed by both parties (i.e. "authorized extras");- any changes after commencement of the project will be billed as authorized extras;- who is responsible for providing materials;- we are not responsible for wages to the homeowner for any assistance provided by the homeowner at any time during the project;- guarantee against defects in workmanship, but not responsible for defects in material used (i.e. crooked lumber);- not liable for property damage by sub-trades to the project;- confirmation of insurance coverage for both worker injury and property damage (vandalism/theft);- deficiencies will be set out in writing by homeowners, once those items are completed to the satisfaction of the homeowner, both parties will sign the item list and we are not responsible for any further deficiencies;- payment schedule (either by date or by portion of project completed) and payment method;- terms of contract may only be amended by both parties in writing;- by signing, both parties agree to abide by the terms and conditions set out within the contract.That's pretty much it, seems to have worked so far when needed. I'm sure there are things we have still missed, it is an ongoing learning experience. Please don't smack me upside the head too hard ... :)
*Smack you upside the head? Hell, that's a pretty comprehensive lookin' document to me. I have to say though, a lot of folks have this phrase "what is included, and what is excluded..."(from scope of work) and to me, that's just about the point I always think that contracts are really only a reminder for each party of what they agreed on. How the heck could you list everything that is excluded? I sure hope I get my "reply" feature back like it was.
*well you don't have to... (some people shud stick to bocce)just the things you think (?) might be in doubtputting up new fascia, but you're not painting ?((painting by others)))building a new front step.. but the blue stone landing is by the owner ?,,((bluestone landing by owner))duhb but whadda i no?Have a great Labor Day Jim !
*As a side note, I stopped using the phrase "by others" to indicate the/those items are not in my contract. After discussing it with my attorney, we agreed that to either dumb clients or shrew clients, it could be construed, and argued in court or medation, that "Gee, we though that meant that Sonny and his staff weren't going to do that themselves, but they would hire it out to another contractor as part of Sonny's contract price, so of course we thought it was included."Going by semantics only, they have an arguable legal point. Granted, "by others" is standard terminology in constructinon contracts, but the world is a changing, and that includes lawyers, judges and their perceptions, and tactics. What hasn't changed, is people's greed and the lenghts they will go to satisfy it. Why take a chance for two lousy words?
*Jim, we have tried to list the "major" exclusions (things that would eat up the entire profit margin) and, like Mike says, the things that we think may be in doubt later. How detailed we get depends on how seriously we think we need to cover butt! For instance, the last contract stipulated that basement and garage slab prep were not included; garage door installation was not included; installation of support posts on the deck WAS included, however trimming the top of the posts was NOT. It also stated a broader exclusion: "any and all interior and/or exterior finishing work". The entire contract is worded with an argument in mind. Some of the exclusions may sound too obvious or elementary, but they were just the red flags we saw on that particular project.I think your definition of a contract is bang-on ... a reminder of what the parties agreed to. In many cases, it's not the contractor that needs reminding!! LOL!
*Jim, remember the term Romalpa Clause? Here is one excerpt from one of my suppliers..I'll look up some others The goods the subject of this invoice shall remain the sole and absolute property of the company as a legal and beneficial owner untill such time as the purchaser shall have paid to the company the purchase price of any other goods subject of any other contract between the intending purchaser and the company
*Yeah, maybe "work does not include" is safer wording than "work by others". Mark, does that mean that even after you install it, possesion doesn't transfer until it's paid for? That seems questionable to me. Didn't someone say earlier that once something is installed it becomes property of the mortgage holder? Did I twist this around?
*Jim....installed work in NY is no longer the contractors....A clause may be able to retain ownership on scrap, and uninstalled but onsite inventory.near the stream,aj
*Well I didn't read it all but enough to see it's what I've also gone through. I recommend a book by Andrew Civitello called contracting A to z.
*
I need some advice on a project that I wrapped up after almost a year on the job. We had a contracted amount to rebuild an existing house and add an addition. The electrical and plumbing were both on a T&M basis because nobody would give a fixed bid for a remodel such as this. The owner complained about the estimate being to high but eventually signed a contract. Just as we were finishing up framing and starting all our above ground rough in the homeowner decided upon a few changes including a second bath, a pantry in the kitchen and 2 extra closets. I told her we could indeed take care of the additions on a T&M basis as spelled out in our contract. I obtained a signed change order and the work commenced. Well, now she doesn't want to pay for the extras she asked for. She also decided to change almost every finish detail in the house at one time or another, including breaking into my jobsite to drop off some bath and lighting fixtures. The problem with this is that she refused to consider design details (cabinets # and type, paint colors, tile colors, carpet, etc.) when we were starting this contract so I picked the materials used myself (all inexpensive budget items except the tile shower and kitchen counter) and stated in the contract that I held all rights as far as selection of materials was concerned. Well, one thing escalated into another and I ended up spending 600 miles on the road and 30 some hours dealing with her endless pestering about what colors of paint and tile I had selected along with the accompanying "ohh dear that won't look good" and "I don't know about that" so I allowed her to choose her own materials and charged extra for the time needed to install the items and make the proper changes. All of this ended up costing endless time on the jobsite and we ended up finishing nearly 2 months after our compeltion date. The problem is that most of our delays were due to her actions and ignoring our contract. Additionally, and perhaps I should have mentioned this at the beginning, but she didn't pay me on schedule from the very beginning of our contract, making payments of $20,000, $15,000, $10,000 and finally $946.00. All of these monies were actually due Nov 15,99 but I didn't receive the $946.00 until 2/21/2000 (it stated clearly that the entire $45,946.00 was due at the start of the contract and no work would be completed until it was paid in full. Also, because she stalled the inital demolition contract and our contract to pour a foundation under the existing house as well as my next proposal for the rebuild I added a clause that allowed me to charge an extra 10% for the job if payment wasn't made all at once and promptly (I called it an inclement weather fee and as it was approaching winter at the time and we live in Colorado at 10,200 feet I wasn't wanting to pour an addition in the winter). So, after she decides not to pay me on schedule at all, I used the date of her last installment payment (Feb 21, 2000) as our start of contract date. Thus, I am not in default as far as our completion clause goes and I am not subject to the $50.00 a day fine for being late. Is this correct as far as contractual law goes? Also she is disputing the plumbing bill, saying that It is way too high. We initally estimated $4800.00 for the work but with the addition of the second bath, the dificulty in roughing in the underground during winter (5' frost line and 20 below zero at night easy), and a number of changes she made ended up bringing the total to about $9000.00. Her logic is that if one bath costs a couple of thousand to plumb why did the next smaller bath cost almost twice as much? I explained the 10" - 20" crawlspace clearance during rough in and the fact that we had allready completed most of the rough in as the primary cause (it costs more to change the floorplan once framing is complete). Now I have my electrician, plumber and lumber yard after me for the money I owe them (about $5600.00) but she owes me close to $12,000. I am scrambling to take care of my suppliers and subs and am considering selling my firearms to do it. What can I do at this point? She says that I owe her punchwork but wont give me a list to take care of. She allready moved tenants into the house (the day we met for her walkthrough in fact) and I can't just "pop by" to take care of any situation. We got our CO July 31, and she still hasn't paid and is still disputing the bill! HELP!!