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Help with granite overhang support

susiekitchen | Posted in General Discussion on May 31, 2008 08:47am

Working on an island for my builder’s personal house; basically a rectangular shape fancied up with angled ends that form what I call “ears” at each corner. The picture his wife gave me has a radiused overhang on the back for seating, but there is no intermediate support for the top, just the canted-out ends of the island.

That’s what we want to do, particularly because having another support in the middle gets in the way of seating and looks pretty gawky design-wise. But I don’t want thousands of dollars of granite on the floor at some point.

So, how did they do this in the picture, which is in a real kitchen?

I did a similar design about 2 years ago, working with another granite resource. I sent the drawing to the fabricator, they gave me the maximum overhang and told me they would take care of the support. Since the top was in the builder’s contract, my only responsibility was the drawing itself, so I wasn’t there when the top was installed and didn’t see what was done.

I’ve dealt with 4 different stone fabricators in the past several years. Every one gives me a different story when I ask about overhangs, and I do whatever each requires even if I don’t understand why they’re so different. I’m no expert in granite installation, so I’d like some input before I discuss this with my builder’s supplier.

Of course, I want to provide what the client wants, but is it feasible?

FYI, the cabinetry for the island is surrounded by a 2×4 wall on the sides and back, so we have lots of structure to fasten to if required.

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Replies

  1. FastEddie | May 31, 2008 09:10pm | #1

    Use 2 cm stone with a thickened edge.  Cut a sheet of 1/4" or 3/8" steel as a full sub-top. 

    "Put your creed in your deed."   Emerson

    "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

    1. User avater
      Jeff_Clarke | Jun 04, 2008 06:50am | #10

      "Use 2 cm stone with a thickened edge"

      Not much selection available in 2cm ... 98% 3 cm

      Steel supports sound good to me.

      Jeff 

      1. FastEddie | Jun 05, 2008 10:38pm | #12

        My supplier had almost everything in both thicknesses.  Big warehouse, stacks of stone, 2 and 3 sitting side by side."Put your creed in your deed."   Emerson

        "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

        1. User avater
          Jeff_Clarke | Jun 05, 2008 11:09pm | #13

          That's fine ... but it hasn't been my experience in the industry in quality granite in our area (east coast).   Maybe Chinese blank product (2 cm is std. in China), but try and get anything nice in 2 cm - not available here.

          Jeff

          1. FastEddie | Jun 06, 2008 05:30am | #14

            That was in San Antonio, and very little was from China."Put your creed in your deed."   Emerson

            "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

  2. JeffinPA | May 31, 2008 11:19pm | #2

     I did not see a picture but  if I understand you right, the ears allow for a cross support.

    Last project we had a 10' wide slab that was supported on the ends by 12" cabinets and a 2x4 wall.

    We put a 2x4 square tube (steel) across the approx 8' opening.  The steel supplier welded top flanges on so that the steel set on the 2x4's for support.

    The Granite company actually provided all the spec's, emailed them right to the steel fabricator, and I picked up the steel and set it.

    Real easy!  We then faced the steel on the exposed side with a piece of cabinet filler

     

    1. Snort | Jun 01, 2008 01:35am | #3

      I'm missing the pics, too. I'd like to see your island design, also.We use a lot of 3/8" steel plates let into the cabinets, or something stable... but a lot depends on your cantilever.I like the square tube idea of Jeff's... I'm filing that one If dogs run free, then what must be,

      Must be, and that is all.

      True love can make a blade of grass

      Stand up straight and tall.

      In harmony with the cosmic sea,

      True love needs no company,

      It can cure the soul, it can make it whole,

      If dogs run free.

    2. susiekitchen | Jun 01, 2008 01:01pm | #4

      Thanks for the idea - seems like a good one!

      I have a bitmap plan view generated by the software I was using, but I can't seem to get it pasted here. Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong??

       

      1. JeffinPA | Jun 01, 2008 03:41pm | #5

        Not my forte.  I usually try to stick with PDF's just cause I have the least problems.

      2. FastEddie | Jun 01, 2008 04:16pm | #6

        Use irfan to convert it to jpg."Put your creed in your deed."   Emerson

        "When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it."  T. Roosevelt

  3. oldusty | Jun 01, 2008 05:37pm | #7

     Another option for supporting the overhang as opposed to corbels is to create a frame work even a few inches tall that resides under and back from the edge .The support frame gets attached to the back and in this case the end walls of the island if I understand you correctly.

      The support frame is also a good place to stash a switch or electric outlet out of sight .

                good luck        dusty

             

  4. wrudiger | Jun 01, 2008 10:50pm | #8

    Do you mean something like this?

    View Image

    This has a 3/4" plywood base supported by Maple beams (1-3/8" x 2-1/2") that run to the opposite side of the cabinet cases, bolted in several places.  Worked with the granite guy on the design.  Steel would have worked as well, but I'm better with wood and since it's showing (as you can see in the pic)...



    Edited 6/1/2008 3:51 pm by wrudiger

    1. susiekitchen | Jun 02, 2008 02:33pm | #9

      Really nice kitchen!!

      In your case the supports really look good in the design. I'm trying to avoid having a visible support because each of the angled ends on this island has one of those oversized acanthus corbels. I hate to add one more in the middle; think it's just going to look goofy. Plus, it cuts into the seating space. I love that unbroken area on your island - everyone always wants lots of stools they can put anywhere they want.

      I'm considering a steel angle, but I also am better with wood. I'm hoping when I talk with the granite people today they will have a suggestion.

      Thanks!

  5. IdahoDon | Jun 04, 2008 11:21am | #11

    I use 1/2" x 4" steel and it's awfully hard to beat.  No need to attach it with anything other than the weight of the top. 

     

    Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.

    1. susiekitchen | Jun 06, 2008 05:46am | #15

      That sounds like it would be great in my situation. We've got plenty to attach to if needed. Thanks!

  6. Kowboy | Jun 06, 2008 07:20am | #16

    Skip the granite, use engineered stone. You can cantilever up to 15" without additional support:

    http://www2.dupont.com/Surfaces/en_US/assets/pdf/fabmanual/Zodiaq_Manufacturing.pdf

    (see page 3)

    This is gauraunteed for ten years too. Good luck getting that with stone.

    Kowboy

    1. susiekitchen | Jun 06, 2008 05:30pm | #19

      My local fabricators will still insist on support for any overhang over 9", granite or quartz. It's probably more a liability issue for them with quartz. They want to make sure the bases are covered.

      Actually, I saw some quartz samples in the kitchen, so they might be leaning toward engineered stone. I think the wife wants a  very light color, which means engineered is going to be better.

      1. Kowboy | Jun 06, 2008 08:14pm | #20

        As a Certified DuPont Corian Fabricator and an Authorized Zodiaq installer, I've had two solid surface warranty callbacks, one estone callback, all customer abuse, in fifteen years. That's what you get when you follow the manufacturer's fabrication and installation instructions.

        Engineered stone is much stronger than granite, there are no fissures. Any fabricator who doesn't take competitive advantage of this is ignorant or wasting money or both.

        Find a fabricator who knows the rules and isn't afraid to play by them.

        Kowboy

        1. unionlabel | Jun 06, 2008 09:40pm | #21

          Here, Here. My Zodiac installer is fearless also. Like your attitude kowboy.

        2. susiekitchen | Jun 08, 2008 03:30am | #23

          Haven't talked with my builder's fabricator yet, but all the info I've gotten so far is going to make me stick to my guns about this top.

          We do have some stone suppliers in this area who either have limited experience or are just unwilling to do anything outside their normal practices. I'm hoping this one turns out to be good; they've been in the business for awhile.

          Thanks for your thoughts!

          1. Kowboy | Jun 08, 2008 04:12am | #24

            You're welcome and if I can help in any way, please ask.

            Kowboy

  7. DougU | Jun 06, 2008 01:29pm | #17

    Susie

    Here is a pic of how we put steel in the peninsula wall, one of those steel L's will support my entire weight (approx 190lbs).

    Another way and I don't have a pic is to build an under frame that sits back about 6 -10" from the edge of your granite. We do these with square tubing welded together. I think something like 1 1/4 square. Any metal shop could make you one of these. We then face that steel with whatever wood the cabinets are made of.

    Doug

    1. susiekitchen | Jun 06, 2008 05:25pm | #18

      Great pics! Thanks a lot for showing the detail.

      Cabinets are pretty, too. Are the darker ones to the left a mantel or hood?

      1. DougU | Jun 07, 2008 02:29am | #22

        Are the darker ones to the left a mantel or hood?

        Probably just the photograpy/lighting but the cabinets to the left are part of the kitchen, just not installed yet.

        Doug

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