Morning ya’ll I have a slight problem with a interior door install. Background, Existing frame pretty level and header is square. After fitting the door, and closing, I have hinge bind or actually hinge spring. The door is not beveled, but fits the opening with a nice revel. The door does not bind on the stops. About the last inch of closing, the bottom hinge starts to pull away from the jamb. You can see it move away. It is a slight spring and the customer has not complained about it, but I am not happy with the way it is. I have tried to put a shim behind the hinge but it did nothing. Any suggestions?? Thanks
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Replies
If the door is not binding on the stops and the hinges are not recessed into the door or jamb then the knuckles on the hinges sound like they need adjusting (bending).
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Bevel the hinge side. I bevel about 2-3 degrees using a Festool saw and guide. Recut the hinge mortises and it should be good.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
I have a fesstool neener neener..LMAO
Ok, yer cool,,lol
I'd just tweak the hinge with a BFH..cheeper and faster. (G)Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
Mine is bigger. As least, that's what she said : )
You're right, you could tweak the hinge - and why not? Katz says its ok - and if this was a door in my own house, and I wasn't feeling all that energetic, I would. But if this was for a client, I'd do it right. It would take maybe 20-30 minutes or less, total, bevel and mortises."I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
Thanks< I kinda thought that> Two heads are better that one. And mine is half empty.
F'n sardine you are..LOL
Get offa my cloud.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
Why not bend the hinge? Who's so certain the hinges were all precisely the same to begin with anyhow? Although I do agree that a hinge side ought to have a bevel.
Edited 7/12/2008 7:23 pm ET by misterzippy
"I'd do it right."Me tooWhy do you not consider tweaking it a right thing?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
'Right thing to do' doesn't really address it.
If the door is hung level and plumb with the hinges set correctly, there should not be any reason to bend the hinge.
If you are compelled to fix a problem by bending the hinge, you are correcting the symptom, but not fixing the underlying problem. Bending the hinge just puts a piece of masking tape over the actual problem, which still exists.
I can imagine times where bending the hinge is the quickest way to address an obvious symptom. But the problem will still exist. The next guy who swaps out hinges, or slab, will rediscover it.
I just assume I will be that next guy, and try and fix the problem, whenever possible.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
"If the door is hung level and plumb with the hinges set correctly, there should not be any reason to bend the hinge. If you are compelled to fix a problem by bending the hinge, you are correcting the symptom, but not fixing the underlying problem. Bending the hinge just puts a piece of masking tape over the actual problem, which still exists."That is not true at all. When a hinge needs to be bent, it is because it is not right from the start. At a guess, I would say that 10-15% of hinges are not right straight of the shelf.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I guess I've been lucky enough not to run into one. Or was able to shim/reset it so it worked without realizing it was bad from the get-go.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
WQhen the hinge is the problem, shimming will not help.I don't mean to start any flame thing on this, in a way we are both saying the same thing - and that is to figure out WHAT is the cause of the problem and fix what is wrong. It gets even more complicated with dutch doors.A door has a multitude of things to consider from fit and bevel to planar alignment to hinge set. Any thing can cause a problem if not done right. We need to step back and think when we approach a door situation. Somebody else mentioned something I had not thought of - if the jamb itself is twisted out of alignment. I can imagine that with the guys who hang doors with no shims behind the hinges!I became the hero once on a large front entry door - about 42 0r 48 inches wide and made of oak. it was dragging on the threshold after nearly a hundred years.Another contractor had told them that the foundation was probably heaving and that they would be needing thousands of dollars worth of work. I looked at the door for less than a minute and saw that the top hinge of four had the screws working loose. I removed them, filled the worn wood in the jamb with glued in plugs, re-drilled and used longer screws to hit the framing, and was done in 20 minutes. Problem solved! The owners started calling me the only honest contractor in town.The point is that we have to fix what is wrong and to do that we have to understand doors and hinges.I think that a carpenter is used to working primarily with WOOD so he naturally thinks in terms of dealing with this first by asking what he can do to the wood, neglecting the think about the hinge, assuming that the hinge is right since the manufacturing of it is out of his control.But having done sheet metal work and a little welding, I am not uncomfortable with touching a piece of metal or with thinking about how to use spring properties to account for some situations.
Yes, there are times when some guys just bend the hinge as a shortcut to the solution like you were thinking about, but don't forget to consider that the hinge forging process can also cause the problem. In new door, that is likely. In an older door, it is more likely that the painters took it off th e hinges and then when re-installing, they misplace the shim that was in it.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I'll give you the metal-working phiosophy; I'm not real comfortable with it, just recently bought my first brake, and can barely weld a cohesive sentence together, much less two pieces of scrap iron.
But then, if the hinge is at fault, why not just replace it?
Well, I'll keep the hinge bending trick in the back of my mental tool bag (admittedly, it's not as full as it used to be, the years stealing what they can) so if I ever run into a situation where it offers the best solution to fix the real problem, I might give it a try.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
"if the hinge is at fault, why not just replace it? "Twenty seconds without reaching for a screwdriver VS five minutes plus running to the store for another hinge that could also be poorly forged, if you know where to buy the exact same hinge.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Factory mortises are often off, and my Rockwell hinge template doesn't rout all three mortises the same depth either, so I always bring along my hinge-mortise plane. It looks a lot like a regular smoothing plane, except that the mouth is really big, to let the chips through, and of course the blade sticks way down from the bottom -- you use the hardware itself to set the depth of the blade. A quick pass with it cleans all of the hinge gains out to the same depth.While I've got it out, I give the back of blade a tap with my hammer to set it a shaving deeper, and take a pass over at least the top jamb mortise, sometimes the door, too. That tiny bit deeper takes care of the inevitable future sag.But always bevel the hinge side before you mortise -- it never hurts, and it's a lot easier than having to go back and do it.Those wooden stir sticks from the coffee shop make perfect shims. Hold one tight to a hinge, snap it to size, then wipe a little glue on it so the painter won't lose it. If you use the hinge-bending trick, the painter won't have a clue where that hinge goes. You're going to get the callback when the door binds, not him, and the extra 30 seconds sure beats an extra half-hour drive. You can even fix a door that rubs on the LATCH side with a shim under the stop side of the hinge, especially with beveled doors.AitchKay
Great infor AitchKay.I learned the shim trick to adjust the strike side early in my career. That lesson served me well. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
A second for beveling the hinge side. I do that on all the doors I hang.
There are lots of reasons doors bind. If a shim didn't work try sliding the jamb leaf out alittle.
On a 3 hinge door, when you can tell the offending hinge, by removing the pin and shutting the door you can figure out what adjustment is needed.
Shim out just the outside end of the offending hinge.
Let's not confuse the issue with facts!
Trashy as it sounds, you can probably tweak the hinge by opening the door, holding in a 8-10p finishing nail between the leaves right beside the barrel, and gently close the door. The nail will act as a fulcrum to bend the barrels slightly.
Just don't tell any real carpenters!
Forrest - not anything, anymore
I've used the nail tweak trick on many occasions with good success. Not to mention it takes about 30 seconds! Try other solutions only if this simplest one doesn't work.
Edited 7/12/2008 6:48 pm by Ted W.
I think someone else mentioned it but just shim out the back side of the hinge, not the entire hinge.
I have never bent a hinge in my life, not saying that you shouldn't but in 30 years I've never had to.
Doug
I'm not understanding why the bending of the hinge wouldn't move the door tighter to the strike side and ruin the alignment there. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
You know I don't have a clue on the bending of hinges, nobody has ever shown me how to do it!
I have always been able to either re-mortis or shim a hinge to make it work better. I agree with those that say the hinge side of the door should also be beveled, I do it to every door that I make or hang from scratch.
Doug
The hinges I typically use cannot be bent. The stock is about 1/8" thick. Cheaper hinges are typically made from much thinner steel.Those hinges will bend easier and the door has a greater tendency to sag because the hinges give some. When installing doors I regularly use Vaseline on the hinges and pins. That helps some too. If the hinges bind and moves the jamb some then when the door is relaxed the door may open back up slightly.
The hinges I typically use cannot be bent. The stock is about 1/8" thick
I don't ever hang any hollow core doors so I'm assuming that I use a heavier hinge then the standard cheapy.
I just don't see the need to bend something when I know that shimming or re-mortising the door/jamb will do the trick.
We are building a house, all the doors came in with a cheaper brass hinge that has to be replaced at some point, they didn't have the hinges that we requested at the time so they are sending them out later! On every door the bottom hinge mortis was not deep enough, seamed like someone at the factory didn't have their jig set up properly. I suppose that we could have bent the hinge to make it work but then when all the new hinges come in we would still be confronted with the same problem! Just as well re-mortis now cause we're going to be doing it sometime.
Doug
That depends how much you tweak it, Jim. Typically it only takes something like a 1/96th of an inch to get it right and that is not enough to effect the opposite side. I've seen hinges right out of the box that you can tell before ever using them that they will bind. When checking them, I can see that the metal touched the opposite wing before it is all the way closed tight. I lay them on the bench and whop with a hammer to tweak before installing. When you've worked with metal a lot, you get a feel for how much of a whop it takes and from which direction.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Check alignment of the hinge barrels. I found a similar situation recently and discovered that when I put a 6' level across the hinge barrels, the bottom one was 1/8" off from the other two. As the door closed the door could not push the center hinge away, so it pulled the bottom hinge screws out. In this case the jamb was bowed at the bottom, so I shimmed the bottom hinge
Since you say that the door has a nice reveal when closed, the adjustment must be in the bottom hinge. You can bend the barrel by laying the hinge open on a concrete surface and hitting the leaf hard right next to each barrel section. put a bit of cloth or paper under the hinge to keep from scratching it on the concrete.
Alternatively, you can shim the outer edge of the jamb leaf of the bottom hinge to get it aligned.
If the hinge is not set too deep, which sounds like since the shin did not help, I'd tweak the hinge on this.
I open the door, hold the fat end of my nail set near the knuckle of the hinge and close the door untill it is trapping the nail set, and then go a bit further, enough the stretch the metal a little.
Then try the operation to see if I went far enough to correct the problem. This is more necessary on cheaper hinges, IMO.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Is the hinge jamb square with the wall face at the hinge locations? I've had doors "spring" like you describe and found that the jamb wasn't square in the opening. A little creative shim work at the problem hinge usually fixed the problem. As others have said, I've never bent a hinge to get a door to work.
I also had a similar problem one time with a HD prehung door. Just before the door was complately closed, it came in contact with the stop at the bottom hinge which caused the hinge to try to move. Since this was an el cheapo HD door, the MDF stop had been glued to the jamb so I couldn't move it to allow the door to completely close. What should have been a 30 second "tweak" turned into almost an hour of carefully shaving off some the stop to get clearance.
Whenever possible, I hang doors without the stop so I can install the stop after the door is in and working right.