In the near future I will start building my new deck. It is roughly 32’x11′ in size. The deck is 8’feet off the ground and the under site will be finished. The deck will be covered with a roof. There is still a possibility for wind driven rain to hit the deck.
I am planing to install Ipe decking. I never worked with Ipe before and need some installation tips. I don’t now yet if I use deck clips or drill holes for trim screws. Maybe I use plugs in the screw holes? What do I have to now about butt joints, are they close together, is a single joist wide enough for the butting of Ipe decking?
Lots of questions, but I hope you guys will guide me through the process.
Martin
Replies
I like the undermount fasteners, like Deckmaster. I also like to lay decks on a diagonal. Keep your screws at least 3" from an end, or it'll likely split unless you pre-drill. One joist is enough for a butt joint. No need to space them very much -- 1/8" is plenty. Use SS if you use trim screws to hold anything down you can't hit with the Deckmaster. You WILL get water on the deck (and in Canada, snow and ice), even if there is a roof. Take that into consideration when designing the underside. Ipe is HEAVY ( it doesn't even float in water), so be prepared to do some serious haulin'. It also makes nasty dust and eats up blades. I'd plan on toasting one at least on a deck that size.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Hi Mike
I don't understand what you mean when you said:"Keep your screws at least 3" from an end, or it'll likely split unless you pre-drill. One joist is enough for a butt joint."How do you stay away 3" from an end when you butt joint on one joist? Please explain.MartinEdited 3/23/2007 5:44 pm ET by myhomereno
Edited 3/23/2007 5:47 pm ET by myhomereno
"How do you stay away 3' from a end when you butt joint on one joist? Please explain."
You don't. You need to pre-drill those. No need to pre-drill for the screws anywhere else on the run.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
No need to predrill in the field?
I dunno what screws you are using, but I swear, I used SS trim head screws, and if it wasn't predrilled with a 5/32, it wasn't getting screwed.
Care to enlighten me?Inmate # 40735 At Taunton Federal Penitentiary.
I was thinking the same thing. Those would be some amazing screws. The only thing I can think is he was talking about using eb tys or the ipe clips, etc., no way could he mean going from the top.
"No need to predrill in the field?I dunno what screws you are using, but I swear, I used SS trim head screws, and if it wasn't predrilled with a 5/32, it wasn't getting screwed.Care to enlighten me?"
Sure 'nuff. The Deckmaster system (you can get SS or powder coated that is supposed to be ACQ-rated, but who knows? ) is a bracket that goes under the deck. The angles are attached to the joists with about a billion screws, I'd guess #8, 1-1/4" -- one every 2 or 3 inches. Then you put two slightly smaller screws (#8, 1" I'd guess) into each ipe plank where they cross each bracket. They go in pretty easy with a cordless impact driver and, since they don't go all the way through, they don't tend to split the deck. Except for near the ends. Anything within about 3" of an end gets pre-drilled. The only SS trims I use are in corners and threshholds where you can't use the undermounts. Those do get predrilled.
If I get a chance, I'll try to post some pics later which includes my lovely assistant who, after dealing with the billions and billions of deckmaster fasteners, proudly announced to anyone who would listen "I've been screwin' non-stop ALL DAY!"
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Ok, I gotcha, I thought you were face screwing the planks, all the way thru, and thats why I did a 'WHAAAA???' Inmate # 40735 At Taunton Federal Penitentiary.
Here's the photos: (Hope it works!)
1603: My lovely assistant nailing hangers & framing.
1610: The Deckmaster angles starting to go in.
1619: Close-up of a few Deckmaster angles.
1620: Job progressing. A couple of butt joints in this one.
1626: Deck down, still needs trimmed.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Looks great, and I always like copper flashing...LOLInmate # 40735 At Taunton Federal Penitentiary.
"I always like copper flashing"
Really? Coulda fooled me! ; - )
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Interested in hearing how Deckmaster has worked out for you
Hi Mike,
It's been 4 years now--how has that Deck been holding up for you? Any issues? I'd love to hear about it. Also, the pictures you posted have gone missing--maybe you could post some more? I'd love to see deck shots. Particular interesting would be "new" and "right now" pictures to see how it has weathered. But any pictures at all would be great.
And Martin (myhomereno) I'm also very interested in learning what you decided on for your deck, and how it has worked out for you.
Thanks!
-Josh
I just lost everything I had typed.
Cuts fine but use a sharp carbide blade and let the blade cut, just go into the wood slowly. Don't cross cut with circular saws, the wood splinters easily, use a miter saw. lengthwise cuts are fine with the circ.
Always pre drill, and even then you will still snap some screws. Also, use anchor seal on the cut ends to prevent end checking. Its a wax you paint on.
An Ipe deck is a lot of work, especially one that size. Using Ipe will take twice as long as a pressure treated deck would and the hidden fasteners will double that. I have not used deckmaster but have used eb ty and while both will give you a nice clean looking deck, they do take a long time and are a bit pricey. Many use SS trim head screws, grk fasteners and headcote are two. Headcote has some with colored heads that match the color of the Ipe and disappear basically. An impact driver will help your install a lot, helps prevent snapping screws.
You do not need 5/4 material unless you like the look of the thicker boards. But if your spacing your joists 16" oc, 3/4" material is more than rated, it is stiff with no bounce at all. Ipe is so strong that 3/4" is more than enough. The 5/4 to me is just extra money for only the look.
Search through the old threads and you'll find lots of info.
Also, butt your boards tight and predrill but one joist is fine for supporting them.
http://www.ironwoods.com/ResidentialHome.asp
Edited 3/21/2007 9:50 pm ET by DDay
I did one with IPE clips, took a long long long time but worked really well and looked great! The dust from cutting is really bad stuff, and although you dont have to predrill for ipe clips, it helps to wax the scews. I have used
http://www.mcfeelys.com/product/LA-0900/Akempucky-Bench-Lube-Tub
dial soap, ivory soap, and bag balm in a pinch. The key thing with ipe, is to know that you will be sacrificing blades and bits, and being ok with it. Having an impact driver is pure gold as well as having safety glasses, the ss screws when the fail do so explosively.
Jeff
Don't use soap with other (piffen) screws, the lye will eat them alive. BTDT. Candles are handy, and more better.Inmate # 40735 At Taunton Federal Penitentiary.
Good point! I was desperate, and it was stainless so I was hoping for the best...
that lye is some bad stuff. tastes awfully funny too.
Jeffjmmmm
Almost every wooden handled hammer I own has a wax plug drilled in the butt end. Funny thing is, I always forget to employ it.Inmate # 40735 At Taunton Federal Penitentiary.
Hi Jeff
It seems as when I am getting the idea now on all the steps that are involved.
Basically it's like: use good cutting blades and drill bits, be prepared to change them often. Protect yourself from the wood dust. Installation is a time consuming process. Seal the end grain immediately.
The only thing I haven't made up my mind yet is the kind of clips I will be using. I prefer something made of stainless steel to last a lifetime. Martin
You did forget the part when the whole deck is done, and you get to crack open your favorite adult bevarage and admire how incredible the deck looks. It is all so worth it in the end. It looks like furniture!
You might want to consider decklok brackets for the posts.
http://www.screw-products.com/decklok.htm
I also found that manasquan fasteners had by far the best prices for stainless, and mind bogglingly quick shipping.
http://www.manasquanfasteners.com
they have the eb-ty system that has worked for me, I would avoid the tiger claw for ipe. Ipe is really tough stuff.
One other thing that is a great idea is to make something, anything, out of red cedar when you are done with the ipe. You will be amazed with the weight difference!
Jeff
jmmmm
One thing you missed in your outline -IPE is so strong that when you frme, you can go to 19.2" or even 24" OC which can save lots of money on a deck this large
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Change screws if you are getting explosive failures.the GRK trim head SS will self drill but I have less failures when I predrill in IPE. But the more ccommon failure is the driver tip and not the screw breaking. When I predrill only maybe one out of a couple hundred breaks.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I was using the screws that came with the ipe clips, ss t-10 or t-15 and I dont think they were GRK quality... lost a bunch of driver tips too. It wasnt super common, but when they let go, my first thought was always
"glad I am wearing eye protection!"
Jeff
jmmmm
If you decide to screw thru the face of the board rather than a hidden fastener sysytem then you allready know you will need to pre drill.
Use these:
http://www.amanatool.com/boring/55260.html
They are carbide tipped counter bore and the bits can be swaped out when they break.
The 'Smart Bit' has the drill bit glued in. When it breaks you chuck it along with $8. You can also get a depth stop for them.
I have done quite a few ipe decks and I love the stuff. I try and talk my customers out of composite decking and sell them on the ipe. Around here it is pretty comparable in price.
A couple of things....I have predrilled for trim head screws and have also used Ebty hidden fasteners. I like the hidden fasteners much better. I can buy the ipe pre-grooved so I don't have to mess with a biscut cutter to accept the ebtie biscut. As for pre-drilling, I have used a Smartbit for predrilling, but plan on going through a few of them during the course of the job. If you tilt the bit in any way, it will snap. Also, I found that I could not pre-drill a number of holes in advance. For some reason, if I predrilled holes, they would be tighter when I came around to screw them and the stainless screws (that is all I use....brown Headcotes) would twist right apart.
A nice touch is to route your cut ends with a 3/4" roundover bit. Speaking of ends, make sure you buy a wax base sealer and paint your ends after you cut them. I know that the mill that supplies me my ipe sends it with sealed ends. Any end cuts must be sealed or it will spit with age.
Space any butts 1/8". Have seen unspaced jobs buckle right up. Saw one guy butt the ends right up to the house and it pried the lag bolted ledger plate off the house.
When I cost my ipe jobs, I cost in a new carbide blade for my chop saw and a new roundover bit for my router (and a mess of Smartbits if face drilling). Using sharp tools on ipe makes the job easier.
One last thing...watch the dust. I am told it is toxic.
Good luck,
Brian, Bayview Renovations