We are building a deck would like to use a hidden fastner system. Has anyone used the Tiger Claw system or the EB-Ty bisciut sytem. Just wondered if any one could give me the pro’s and cons of each system, we will be using 2 x 6 deck boards.
thank you
Replies
I have used the tigerclaw on a trex deck.
Ended up drilling the holes for the damn things. No way can you just pound them together like they say.
If you're using wood they may work as advertised.
Next time, the biscuit joiner gets a chance, no more tigerclaws for me.
Joe H
Have used Eb tys on Ipe deck using 1x4 boards.
They've been down about 9 years now with no movement.
I highly reccomend them
We've used and I suppose will continue to use in some circumstances the Eb-ty system but good golly it takes forever. What kind of wood are you using?
We will be using pressure treated boards. One of the concerns we have with the Eb-ty system is pressure treated wood is going to shrink and this system already has a spacer in it so we will end up with the spaces to big, we would love to use Ipe or Jatoba but this is a cottage and it will just cost to much since we have 3 large decks to be built.
Is there another system that you know of.?
Screw them down with finish head de4ck screws
What type of deck screw would you recommend. We have checked the Tiger Claw system and its 900 pieces including the screws which will do 500/ft2 . Cost is $900.00. So $1.00/piece.
Lots of other ways. We use stainless trim screws on dry 2X PT or 2: stainless finish nails and Marine 5200 sealant on 5/4 boards.
Dont know tigerclaw but like eb ty
Put down a few IPE and Massaranduba decks with it.
You need good organization and team work to knock it out.
1 person on saw horses with biscuit jointer cutting joints where they will align with joist. (on exposed end, it is nice to not blow out the end with the jointer so you see a solid end board and not a biscuit jointed board)
2 persons with drill bit in one drill and #1 square drive in other and clamps.
Quick dry fit the next board, pull out, put dollop of Poly glue on joist and lay the board in, drill and screw it home.
Dollop of glue fills any possible gap between joist and deck board so you dont get movement or noise later.
1st job goes slow. Next job will fly.
Clamp board in, drill and screw.
I did a jatoba deck using the deckmaster system. Its a series of metal brackets that you screw into the joists and then screw up into the deck boards from underneath. You determine whatever you want the board spacing to be. It looks great but its expensive and kind of a pain to install unless you have easy access underneath the deck.
We do not have access underneath as the deck is 9' in the air , this would be to hard for 1 or 2 people to do. I looked at that system, it was a possibility now that you have advised the issues we won't use it.
If you can set some staging underneath the deck, the deckmaster will still work. Like some drywall benches with walk planks.I did an Ipe deck with Deckmaster. I like that there are no slots cut in the edges of the boards.One thing though I sprayed the top of the brackets with dark red metal primer. You get glints of metal through the gaps otherwise.
My dh had the same concern about putting grooves in the sides of the boards, not to happy about that since it's only pressure treated. I think we will continue the search, there has to be something else out there. thanks for the tip about spraying the tops, we will do this with all the systems if they are showing.
This has come up quite a few times here on the board, you might want to try a search for more input. Apart from debating the ready made fastener systems, I remember someone saying they had success with nailing 2"x4"s to each joist to form a tee and screwing from below.
Its possible to fasten the boards from on top of the deck by kneeling on boards that have already been put down and reaching around and underneath the board you are fastening (does that make sense?) This can get uncomfortable pretty quickly.If you have access to Fine Homebuilding magazine there was an article about deck fasteners in the May 2006 issue (number 178). The article covers various screws as well as hidden fasteners. You can also find it on this web site if you search for it. It's called "Deck-Fastener Options" by Justin Fink.
Thanks SnapPea, yes that does make sense but I don't think it's gonna happen. The decks will be close to 600/ft2 once we are done so It's alot of deck boards. I will check out the magazine and see if I can find it.
thanks again for all you input.
Okay well usually you use the hidden fastner thing when you have nice looking wood that you don't want to mess up. Looking out over an ipe deck with no visible fasteners is really nice, almost furniture quality.
That said, you are using PT wood? Uh, that stuffs kinda ugly, especially if you have the incised type. I guess I'm asking why bother spending money on a hidden fastener system when its just basically polishing a turd?
BTW around here you can get ACQ wood in either its 'regular' green color or the same stuff in a stained brown color. The brown color is for use on decks and fence posts so its color more closely matches the untreated wood that typically makes up the 'pretty' part of such structures.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Ohhh gee's thanks for that slap, I will make sure I pass it on to the DH. We would love to have the Brazilian Hardwoods but up here in Ontario you are looking at $5-6.00/ft , it's a cottage . Once you put 3-4 feet of snow on it with a few freeze thaws for around 4 months , then you get 3 months of bugs, you really don't get to see it that much , In your neck of the woods it's different, you don't have to go out and shovel it off.
So.... it's PT, we do what we can with what we have and we don't have 9,000.00 to put into a deck.
Its not meant as a slap but more of a reality check.
Your reply also seems to be making my point for me. If this is a deck that you are hardly ever going to see, built out of a wood that is not particularly attractive and you imply that your budget is not generous, it doesnt make a lot of sense to use an expensive-difficult system to attach the decking boards.
My wife and I did a 400sq ft deck with a balcony. We built the structure out of PT but used IPE for the deck boards and railings and clad the visible structural parts with IPE also. We used the eb-ty system and it was a PITA but we felt it was worth it. If I were to do it again I would have the boards pre-milled and use the stainless steel version of eb-tie.
The IPE will outlast the PT probably by twice its lifetime. If you route your boards you will route thru the protective layer and that will be the spot where water collects and rots your boards.
What about face screwing with counter-sunk stainless steel screws and then cutting plugs out of the same wood and glueing them in place? It will be labor intensive but cheap and you won't get rot because the screws will be sealed with water-proof glue. Done decently well it'll look seamless unless you get real close.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
We have 3 decks to build that come off of each other, each deck will be approx, 350 - 400/ft2 ea. I know you hate PT but it's affordable.
I was on your blog and couldn't find your deck, do you have a pic. of it.?
You can see our cottage under Poorgirl, I put the pics up last year.
Your stainless screw idea is a possibility, in the meantime I have found this system called http://www.invisifast.com that works on PT and is a reasonable cost. I have ordered samples of it to try it before going any further.
Has anyone heard of this one or used it.?
I've never heard anything about that system but I'm sceptical about the durability of lexan in climates where the temperature varies by 60 deg. C over the course of the year. Different coefficients of expansion etc. will cause stress and I would not expect lexan to last as long as the PT. Time will tell. Hopefully someone else has more definitive info.
A DIY deck is a different proposition from one contracted out. You can experiment and material cost is more significant. If I'm building for a client using a labour intensive technique I'd prefer to charge 50% more and use nicer lumber. I'm also reluctant to experiment and risk an unhappy consumer, a call-back and/or bad PR.
The Rep. is going to call me back so I will ask about long term effects in a cold climate. This looks like a cleaner system them the tiger claw, and if there are any problems with boards they are easier to remove. If we don't use this system then DH will probably do what someone else had suggested and use boards underneath and screw them to the deck boards. This deck will be done this Spring, if ever we get Spring. With all this snow it sure doesn't look like it's right around the corner. He is hoping to get this done inbetween the snow and the black fly season. So he has one month really to have it done.
Well, DH just completed the PT Deck 14' x 39'. He really wanted to use a hidden fastening system so he ended up putting all boards on a diagonal butting up to a framed in triangle that is in the middle of the deck that points out to the water. 16' boards so there are no joints other than in the triangle. All boards were screwed down on an angle from the side of the board so no screw holes on the boards and all boards were screwed in from underneath.
I will post a picture once I can remember to bring the camera with me. The deck looks great, it's not the IPE that you guys are used to seeing but, looks great non the less.
Poorgirl, you might try pocket hole screws coming up from joists. McFeelys has #10X2-5/8 nocorrode screw that would work well.
I have used the Tiger claw system with Portico Composite decking.
Worked very well for me.
The composite decking came with the groove on the sides to accept the clips. The system is'nt perfect but it sure does save on labor.
It beats predrilling and then putting the screws in anyday.
as far as using the Tiger claw clips for 2x6 deck boards.
You can use a router with a slot cutter on it to make your own groove on the side of the deck board. But I think that starts adding more work that makes using the system a bit of a waste.
If you are looking for the "no screws showing" look for the deck
you have the option of making the slot yourself or you could use stainless steel trim head screws (they won't show as much)
PS I would have to agree with mad scientist on this subject of usiing hidden fasteners with PT wood. If it's a nice wood like cedar, mahogany, Ipe, I would spend the extra bucks but for PT .... NAHHHHH
Best of luck
Ray :)
Edited 3/6/2008 9:25 pm ET by raymond128
Thanks for your suggestions. We don't want a composite deck , we have cedar decking around the pool at home, every year this deck has to be finished, I oil it with Cabot Oils , the cedar is almost 3X the cost of the PT and by the time spring arrives every year you would not know it's cedar, Never again would we spend the money on cedar and the exotic woods that you have are just to expensive here. Just check your prices on HD.com vs HD.ca, same products different prices.
The deck will be oiled, and regardless what you use as deck board, not having screw holes will look better on any board. It all comes down to money.
I am doing a PT deck right now by toe screwing from underneath. I will find out whether or not the joists survive this treatment, in the fullness of time. Here in Ottawa it was either snowing or very cold almost every day so the project is on hold (while I shovel the 16" of snow expected etc.). The time required to install each board is so long that I am embarassed to confess it (even anonymously). However the clean, no fastener look is worth it. Next time I'll try either the deckmaster system, or the 2X4s suggested by previous posters (although if I could conscript a squadron of skilled orcs ...)
Save the skilled Orks for the shovelling that's coming your way. Isn't this storm supposed to set the record?
Ottawa may get the biggest snowfall of the season today (40cm+-). It will still leave us about 50cm short of the record set in 70/71 of 4.4m in one winter. Some locals are hoping for enough snow to set a new record, I'd rather be building decks in the spring sunshine. I hope the weather is more fun where you are!
Edited 3/8/2008 4:00 pm ET by sisyphus
Oh you know, spring on the West Coast. Same old bulbs and flowers. Yawn.
Well, we ended up with 50 cm of snow, interestingly as I walked the dog there were lots of people out shoveling, all apparently very happy. People I didn't know initiating conversations etc., everybody much more outgoing than usual. Adversity has its benefits.
Vancouver Island is beautiful, whereabouts are you?
I live an hour north of Victoria on the west coast near a town called Jordan River. The thin strip of forest along the water is nice, most of the interior is logging roads and clear cuts.
I visited relatives just outside Victoria (Shawnigan Lake) back in 1996. I went up the east coast as far as Campbell river. Where you are looks like a great place to be, surfing (which has long intrigued me) and presumeably lots of trails for mountain biking (sigh). Maybe I'll make it back out there some day.
Hey, it global warming turns out to be a go, you may be living on the West Coast quicker than you think!
Hey there Poorgirl
I built a deck last year using Headcote finish screws. You can see them, true, as they are put on from the top, but used in combination with their countersinking bit and painted heads, i think it is a good look.
http://www.starbornindustries.com/headcote/
HD
The biscuit system works okay , just be sure that you are careful not to tighten the trimscrews down to fast or they will pull right through.