Hello everybody,
Still working on my bathroom remodel, demo phase currently, and have another electrical question. Currently, there’s one GFI receptical left to be removed and it will be significantly harder to do what I wound up doing for the rest of the electricals in the old room, fan/light, i.e. taking out all wiring back to next upstream fixture. The GFI for this room is in the middle of a run to the adjacent guest bathroom and the circut serves that room’s GFI as well. So, I’m thinking splice.
Junction box of course, question is this: Do you ever hide the junction box with correctly done splice in the wall? That sounds like kind of a bad idea to me in theory, but if it’s done all the time I would like to know about it. If it’s a big no-no I could put the splice in a visible but subtle spot and put a plain cover-plate over it for future access. Thanks everybody for your input!
Erich
Replies
Disallowed by code. Must be accessible. Put a cover plate on it.
P.B.,
Thanks much, will do. I figured I'd give my inspector a call too, but since this appears pretty cut and dry I guess I won't bother him. Thanks again for the quick reply.
Erich
yes it is a fairly major no-no. having said that, i found two in our former house in the course of remodeling which i fixed (but then was forced to put another one in somewhere else)
why not have some fun with it? place your junction box at the normal height of a light switch, put a dummy switch in and let people wonder what it operates. if it's in a guest bath it will keep them guessing for the length of their stay.
m
"yes it is a fairly major no-no. having said that, i found two in our former house in the course of remodeling which i fixed"
So imaginehow I felt when I got up in the attic during a bath fan installation and found TWO twisted-and-taped (no wire nuts, no solder) splices buried in cellulose?
About like I did when I opened the wall in the aformentioned batroom and found that my vanity lights were powered by two lengths of lampcord wirenutted onto the end of a run of 14-2 Romex...
Or when I finally tracked down the other end of the 10-3 that was labeled "oven" in my service panel, only to find that it was just laying in joist bay, with NOTHING on the end of it. (Since there never was an oven in this house, I shut off that breaker. And boy was I glad I did!)
I still have one breaker that appears to be powering nothing. There's a 14-2 line attached to it, but it's been off for 3 years and every outlet and light in the house still works.
As you can probably tell, I have "issues" with some of the former owners of my abode. LOL
K-
-
"Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game because they almost always turn out to be -- or to be indistinguishable from -- self righteous sixteen-year-olds posessing infinite amounts of free time." - Neil Stephenson, Cryptonomicon
I've found 2 splices in the attic. A ceiling fan that was hooked to a 2x4 sitting on the trusses, but not attatched with the connections lying in the insulation.
And, I found a wire in the attic that has power (part of a circuit I use) It's now sitting in a junction box. Unfortunately I stumbled on that after I put in a J-box on another circuit so I could hook up some lights in the attic. Fortunately it didn't shock me though.
The upstairs was obviously wired by a professional. The downstairs I've found so many problems I'm worried what's hidden in the walls. Fixed the stuff in the boxes, and in the panel, hope that's all there is, but I'm not confident of it.<G>
You have several other "options".
Depending on what is on the other side of the wall you can turn the box around so that it opens into the other room. Then have a real device there or a blank cover plate.
I suspect that you can't easly get to the run from this box to the end recpt in the other bathroom to completely rewire the circuit. But what you might be able to do is to remove that box and with the length of the cable remaining from that box to the end reroute it in the bathroom to another box. And then run new cable from the supply to the new box.
Now that new box might be down a just off the floor where it won't be noticed. It might be in the linen closet. It might be part of a box supplying a lighting fixture on an unrelated circuit, just use a bigger box. In fact you might want to add a sconce light just to have a box to had this splice.
Bill,
I liked your ideas, maybe you can elaborate on one thing for me. I'd really like to take as many things off the current circut as possible, I just feel like the electrical in the house wasn't done too well (see my thread on Adult Insanity Inducing Devices - it turned out to be push-in terminals) and if I can take some load off the existing circut all the better. That said, I'm not too keen on turning the recept. around (but a good idea for the future) or moving it to a place where I want a fixture.
What I did want to ask was this: If I bring a new 20A circut in, and have a single gang box of sufficient volume, can I do the splice to the neighboring bathroom in the same box as a planned receptical on the new circut? Two circuts, one box? That would be perfect if I could pass during inspection. Many thanks for your input.
(Mitch - you had me in stitches with your idea. What might be best is to do as you said and then add a sticker to the dummy switch cover plate in big red letters saying DANGER - DO NOT THROW SWITCH. That would really get them.)
Erich
"If I bring a new 20A circut in, and have a single gang box of sufficient volume, can I do the splice to the neighboring bathroom in the same box as a planned receptical on the new circut? Two circuts, one box? That would be perfect if I could pass during inspection. Many thanks for your input."
Yes, you can.
However, I would check with the local inspector first.
While it is completely legal in the code local inspectors often have them own things that they like and dislike.
"What I did want to ask was this: If I bring a new 20A circut in, and have a single gang box of sufficient volume, can I do the splice to the neighboring bathroom in the same box as a planned receptical on the new circut? Two circuts, one box? That would be perfect if I could pass during inspection. Many thanks for your input."
Yes, if you have enough volume - you can get larger boxes and/or extensions to have plenty of room. Or use a 4x4 as is (two outlets, or outlet + switch). What I'm not sure is if you can reduce a 4x4 to 2x4 with a "mudring" if you rock right up to the 2x4 opening.
Note, with two circuit in the same box, DON'T combine the neutrals if either circuit is GFCI-protected.
David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
Don't combine the neutrals of different circuits whether there are GFCIs involved or not.
T, can you please elaborate on why you shouldn't combine the neutrals of two different (non-GFI) curcuits? As I understand it, this is called a shared neutral, pretty standard wiring method amoung the electricians (and inspectors) I have run into. The hazard with this is if the shared section of neutral shorts, the power can backfeed and deliver 220v to both curcuits, causing damage to computers and tvs. But if the curcuits are wired properly this shouldn't be an issue.
The other hazard is that in the unknowable future, somebody might move one of the breakers so that both hots are on the same leg of the 220 and if both circuits were fully loaded, the neutral would be carrying twice its rated load.
There has been a lot of discussion on this in recent months. Do a search for shared neutral.
I had to add a splice too, but did not have a closet to hide it in so I added a little wire and put it in the attic above the wall where I needed it, so if I have to get to it I can from the attic.
The feed and return wires are supposed to be in the same cable/conduit so that the resulting electric and magnetic fields cancel each other out and can't cause inductive heating in adjacent metal. A 3-wire circuit (shared neutral) is legit because the neutral is is in the same piece of romex with the red and black hot conductors. What you don't want is the supply current coming in to a device on a hot conductor in one length of romex and then returning to the panel on a neutral(s) in a differet length(s) of romex, which would happen if you wire-nut neutrals of different circuits together in a junction box.
you can mud and rock it down to a 2x4, the question is does it then pass code? Its still accessible thru the 2x4 that is left, but hidden so to speak. I wonder if it passes the code book?
Theresa-Honeydoos