Could someone tell me the technique for moving an exposed header, (load bearing) up and into the ceiling. There is load bearing wall connecting the kitchen and the dining room, and I want to combine the two to form a big kitchen. But the deviding wall has a 48″ walk-through with about 16″ from the ceiling to the bottom of the header…all sheetrocked……Hell! you know what I am talking about. I need to get rd of that header yet still support the joists. Do I set a beam in its place, like maybe a 2×8 header, 8 foot long, ( depending on how wide I want the new opening), and run the joists into it. Do I use metal joist hangers or will nailing be ok. Can this be done from above or do you need to remove the sheetrock and do it from below. Do you need an engineer? I am sure this is done all the time.
any help would be appreciated..I am a trim carpenter so framing isnt my forte
Replies
Cutawooda,
Best advice is to enlist the aid of a regular framing contractor. With the walls being load bearing and all, you need to know how to properly size the beam so nothing falls down around your head. Your proposed single 2x8 isn't nearly sufficient enough to carry a ceiling load and/or a roof load.
Yes there are ways to hide the beam up above the ceiling so that the ceiling of both rooms are all on the same plane. It helps if there is an attic up above so it is easier to work with. If there is another floor above, it's a whole lot easier not to conceal the header.
The thing to keep in mind is even with the header concealed,the load still is being transferred down along both sides of the opening. There must be adequate posts in place to handle this load, and the load must be continuously transferred down to the foundation in this "line." In other words, posts must be in place below the new header opening, or another load bearing wall must be situate below...if not, you will have to install posts or such so as to carry the load.
There is a book that explains concealed header tricks..... it's in FRAMING FLOORS WALLS CEILINGS by theBest Of Fine Homebuilding.
However, I still believe the best recourse is to enlist the help of someone who knows how to properly size and install headers. This is not a DIYer project.
Davo
Davo is right - you need to determine exactly what you need for a header first. No way can we (Or should we) do that without seeing the house.
Then you'll have to shore up your existing joists, and cut them back with a sawzall to make room for the new beam.
No way would I use nails instead of hangers. Use hangers, and use all the nail holes.
One thought comes to mind, after re-reading you post. Are you certain that it's a bearing wall? You might be worrying about nothing if it isn't.
Death and taxes are unsolved engineering problems [Romana Machado]
No, I am not sure it is load bearing. I am taking a worst case scenario. Plus, I have always wanted to learn about it. I have a real need to learn framing. I am self employed carpenter/remodeler. But most of my jobs consist of smaller remodels. I begged my last boss for 5 years to include me more in the framing aspects of the additions we did, but I always ended up trimming out, punching out and customer relations. He said the framing aspect was for grunts and my talents were best suited for everything else. Flattering? yes B.S.? yes consequently I lack framing experience.
Back to your question..I assuming it is L.bearing. It is a wall that runs the whole house width...but have i got up ther to look? no
Also,..this may be a stupid question. But how can you be sure a wall is load bearing or not..I mean I know what is LB but what is the criteria for being Lbearing. It doesnt neccesarily have to running perpendicular with the joists right.
Maybe we should title this thread "Load Bearing Walls 101".
For starters, 99% of load bearing walls have the framing above them running perpendicular. But not always.
There are 2 ways to tell, and both shuld be checked out in every case. First, check above the wall. If the building is stick framed, and the ceiling joists split over the wall in question, it's load bearing. If you look in the basementor crawlspace and there's a beam or posts below the wall, that's also a good indication.
Roof trusses typically don't use interior walls as bearing, but there are exceptions. Look for a joint right above the wall for an indication of whether or not it was designed to bear at that point.
Two story houses can be a real pain to figure out if there's no access to the joist space.
If you're not dead certain, look for someone knowledgeable to come over and check it out. Multiple story homes and/or difficult roof profiles can make it kinda dicey to figure out what bears on what.
If the wall in question appears to be load bearing, but has nothing underneath it, go have a beer and try to forget about it.
Bumpersticker: I brake for?wait?AAAH!?NO BRAKES!!!!!
You might want to check out what John Sprung has written here http://curve.phpwebhosting.com/~luka/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=Const&Number=3326&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=. It might give you something to think about. Best of luck.__________________________________________
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Are we even sure that it is stick framed. It might be trusses spaning it. Cu5tting them to insert a flush header would help him learn more than he wants to about framing.
Another thought. Rather than a flush set header, if there is attic acess, a header can be run across the tops of the joists and they be supported up to it with hardware and not have to wear out sawzall blades separating the joists.Excellence is its own reward!
Much as it pains me to admit it, you've got a point...............(-:
But if they're trusses, it most likely isn't a load bearing wall. That's why I was questioning whether or not that was known for certain.
I don't know what your problem is, but I'll bet it's hard to pronounce
So youre saying that I could lay ,say, a 16 foot strong back or built-up beam righ on top of the area in question and use metal ties to support the load. More info for you: it is a single story and i doubt very seriously it is trusses. It sits on a slab. There is easy access to the attic.
Don't see why you couldn't, with a few limitations.
Technically, a beam is suppose to be fully supported along it's top edge. This is routinely ignored, though. Would probably need at least SOME bracing to prevent the beam from buckling sideways.
You'd need some special order hangers (with long straps)which would be a pain to install.
Depending on the specific situation, you could be introducing a hefty concentrated load onto the slab at the ends of the beams. Might need some pads poured.
Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard drive?
I don't know what your problem is, but I'll bet it's hard to pronounce
.
;o) you found out!!!!!!!
I doubt that there would be enough concentrated load from just a ceiling which is allthis one sounds like.
Now climb into that attic and tell us whether you've got trusses.Excellence is its own reward!
My guess would be if it is in in fact load bearing then you should install a steel flitch plate between the two 2x's and use joist hangers....You DO need an engineer most deffinatly
Be well
Namaste'
Andy
It's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM