I need to mount some EMT and a dryer vent on brick. This brick is very hard, and I’m not getting much of anywhere with me old AEG hammer drill. When the electrician and the plumber were faced with really hard materials, I know they pulled out a Hilti. The doorbell is mounted on the brick, and the electrician didn’t have much trouble using a Hilti.
So I’m thinking if I can get a used one on e-bay or something, I may just go ahead an buy one. Otherwise, I’ll probably rent one.
But the question is, which one? I’ve looked at the Hilti website, I they don’t seem to explain the differences. And of course that is just the new models.
Anyway, I’m thinking the TE line, maybe a 74 or 76. But can anyone tell me what to look for, and what is important? I see that some have slightly higher or lower Watts, and there is an anti-theft device. Some use SDS-Max while other use SDS-Plus (I’m going to search down that discussion – it was pretty recent as I recall).
And what is the difference between the rotrary hammer and the Combi units?
Replies
I've got a TE2... I think it's about the lowest model on their totem pole. I don't use it everyday, but it comes out at least once or twice on every frame I do. I drilled about 100 5/8"x10" holes in a 60 year old foundation with it on one job and it didn't complain at all. It's a real honey. Hilti makes very nice tools, IMO.
Hilti is terrific, but not your only option.
A plain old SDS drill will do the garden variety stuff you are talking about, like this Bosch:
http://tinyurl.com/e9d7t
However, if you want something capable of drilling a 100 5/8" holes like DP, then you have to step up to a heavier drill.
I have the Bosch in the link above, and it has been a great performer; you can even equip it with a chisel for stuff like removing tile, and light duty demo work.
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"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
A rotary hammer works much better and faster than a regular hammer drill when you're trying to drill holes in hard stuff.
I believe the "combi" units you're referring to would be a rotary hammer that also has a hammer-only mode of operation (for instance when you're chipping up a bit of tile), and a rotation only mode (for instance when you want to drill holes in wood).
Just like any tool that tries to do multiple things 1) if you have a lot of chipping to do a combi unit probably would not perform like a dedicated tool would and 2) if you have a lot of drilling (in wood) to do, a regular drill might be better (I'm really not sure about that though because I've never used mine do do any regular drilling). However a rotary hammer works great and if you can use the added functions of a combi unit for some chipping or drilling (or driving grounding rods. . . yeah, that's a great use of the tool) then go for it.
I've got the Hilti ATC 56. It's a great combi tool but very pricey. It accepts SDS Max bits which are larger than SDS or SDS plus (although I guess you can use SDS plus bits in a SDS Max chuck but not vice-versa). My advice would be to avoid a tool that takes spline drive bits, not because there's anything inherently wrong with them, but because I think the industry is going to the SDS style bits.
Finally, if you're primarily drilling into brick to install EMT, you're going to be drilling relatively small holes for Tapcons or something similar. An SDS tool like the Bosch Bulldog is probably all you'll need. Many on this forum have them and most like them. For me to make those holes I have an adapter that fits in my SDS Max chuck that will in turn accept plain SDS bits. Some have said that a large SDS max tool driving small SDS bits can "over power" the bit and lead to breakage. I haven't done it yet, but see how it could happen.
All the major tool companies make rotary hammers. There was a review last year in either JLC or FHB and they liked the Hitachi best. As I recall it was about half the price of the Hilti.
Good luck and happy rotary hammerin'
(Just ran the spell check on this post and it wanted to change "Tapcons" to "Tampons")
Fingers, you be right, a roto-hammer of about any color (yellow or blue or whatever) would serve a homeowner just fine. But, hey, I sense tool envy in the OP.
Don't spoil his fun. Let him get the Hilti. ;-) There's probably has a Viking range and a Subzero fridge in the kitchen!
Cliff
(A tool addict myself, and darned proud of it!)
There is a sub-zero in my OLD kitchen. Now we are stuck with a GE monogram. Not nearly as nice.My AEG is pretty much like the Bosch (Bosch bought AEG, as I recall). And it ain't doing the job. Maybe the new Bosch ones will, but I know I don't want to buy one and find out it doesn't.So I'll probably see what the rental place has. Getting one on e-bay may take too long anyway, as I need to put the laundry back together before my tenant starts to smell....
Hilti or Bosch take your pick. Hilti definately the upscale choice.
Techtronic (Ryobi, Homelite, Rigid Pneumatics and now Milwaukee tool co.) bought AEG.Gord
Is anyone familar with a TE-12 S? I gather it is an older model, as it does not come up on the Hilti web site. Seems like a pretty good deal on e-bay at $130, but I wanted to see if anyone was familar with that model first.
If it works at all and it's a Hilti, it is worth repairing.
I own a TE25. Drilling in concrete with a rotary hammer is like drilling in wood with a good drill bit in a good drill.
Ron
What Ron said..Hilti is good. Whats fun is drilling through the sole plate,cuzz the inspector says you need an anchor bolt here, and hardly noticing a differenc between PT wood and concrete. Did you know Hilti is made in Lichtenstein? A principality, like Monaco....dont that beat all.
What sort of quality is AEG? Pardon my ignorance (and I have plenty of it), but isn't that sort of the bottom of the barrel, like ryobi but even lower on the power scale?
I ask because I think I remember seeing their tools on eBay for like 1/10th the price of their bosch, milwaukee, hilti... cousins sell for. If I'm right then you don't need to spend a bunch of money on a specialty tool. The thing with SDS or any type of rotary hammer is you can't use regular drill bit with it, so it's only good for masonry and nothing else. Soon as you have to bore a large hole in thick wood, you'll have to get yet another drill, cuz the AEG won't handle that either.
If I'm wrong then, well... nevermind. :o)
I don't really know much about AEG - I just picked this one up at a pawn shop years ago for like $35. I had to take it to a tool repair place to figure out how it worked. It looks similar to a Bosch bulldog, but it is a hammer drill I'm pretty sure, and it seems that a rotary hammer will be better.So renting something will help me get a feel for what will work.
IMHO, renting is a good way to go. Didn't realize you already have some SDS bits, so it makes sense to have the tool to go with it. Then if you encounter some wood that's too much for the AEG you get to by another toy... er, uh tool. Can never have enough of 'em I always say. :o)-----------------------------------------------------------
FT Job Wanted: Chicago, north side/North Shore burbs. http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=70809.1
The rental place only had the Bosch Bulldog, which I tested yesterday and it will work. But I'm still watching e-bay to pick up a Hilti for the future.Now I've got to go out to the garage and finish the laundry setup....
but it is a hammer drill I'm pretty sure, and it seems that a rotary hammer will be better.
You got that right. I had a Bosch that I thought was great- until I bought a small Hilti rotary hammer (on ebay). Incredible, the difference in performance and longevity of the bits. My TE1 is obsolete, but is exactly what I needed. Rated up to 3/4", my use is Tapcon holes and anchor bolt holes (generally 1/2").
The Bosch went to a new home from a yard sale. Felt a little guilty, but the new owner was tickled, for only $35. I'd paid $60 for my Hilti.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
AEG's are often rebadged milwaulkees
actually you van buy a chuck for the bosch hammer,drill combo.
Well someone beat me to it. Did I tip someone here off?Not that it matters much. There seem to be a number available, just that TE 12S had a $130 Buy It Now price, so I wouldn't have had to wait out the bidding.I like the looks of the TE-6. Since I have some regular SDS bits, I think I might as well stick to that size.I'm going to go rent whatever the rental place has tomorrow so I can finish this. Then I'll have some experience to go by too.
My TE17 is 35 years old and still drills like a dream! (just wish I could get a replacement switch)
Hilti by far, I've drilled thousands, of holes from 1/2 to 3/4" for lagging pallet racks. We run Hilti's all day long without a hitch. Some projects would have 5,000 5/8" x 4 3/4" quick bolts, drill hole pound in the quick bolt and torque with 1/2" drive impact.
Does anyone know what "SDS Top" is? There are several Hilti TE-35s on e-bay that I am eying (we're going to rip up a kitchen floor that has a number of layers on it, so I'm thinking that having the rotary hammer part would be good). But some of the ones for sale are indicated as being this model:http://www.hilti.com/holcom/modules/prcat/prca_product.jsp?OID=12274&CATE_OID=-9466which has the SDS Top style chuck. I've yet to figure out what it is.BTW, I rented a Bosch Bulldog (I forget the exact model number) which did the immediate job. But I understand why one would not want to drill 50 holes with it. The vibration was pretty substaintial.Thanks!
SDS-top is based on the successful SDS-plus system and closes the gap to the larger SDS-max system. The shank diameter is 14 mm, 2 asymmmetric spline grooves transmit the torque This development became necessary because we wanted to make a tool holder system which was capable of coping with the ever increasing percussive power in the rotary hammer class between 2 and 5 kg. a bit more here...http://www.ewbc.de/onlinelearning/eopt/data/nid18185_10669/18185.html.
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'Wer ist jetzt der Idiot?'
I got the TE-2, TE-76 and the cordless 36v TE-6 A and love all of them. I have a bosch bulldog and it good but prefer the Hiltis. I know Hilti leases there equipment also, that mught be a good option.brad
I never dreaded having to use any size Hilti ,they are easy on the operator thats for sure.
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'Wer ist jetzt der Idiot?'
I don't work fast enough to lease stuff. I already need the drill again, and I just took it back on Monday...
That site is great, thanks!Any idea if there is an adaptor so that SDS Top can take SDS plus bits? I'm asking because I already have a collection of SDS bits.
I don't know,about an adapter , I would think the power of the larger drills would damage the smaller bits.....
anyway, the only interchangeable chucks I've used are on the smaller drills....
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...you really didn't think you would get off that easy ?.
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'Wer ist jetzt der Idiot?'
Easy??? This is an excuse to get TWO Hiltis...Actually, I guess I'll go back to looking at the TE-6. But I suppose if the other one is cheap enough, I could get 14mm bits...
you can never have too many..........
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'Wer ist jetzt der Idiot?'
As others have mentioned, check out the rotary hammers at Bosch.
http://www.boschtools.com/
Gord
Yeah, the 76 is probably quite a bit heavier than you're imagining. A TE2 or TE5, you'd be just tickled with, and used would be even better if you can find one. I agree the bulldog is also a pretty good drill for what you're doing. I use my 76 for chopping up floors like in a basement bath, or taking the tile off a concrete floor. Not so much the small hole kind of tool.
"A bore is a man who, when you ask him how he is, tells you." -Bert Taylor
SDS Max (20 mm shank) is way bigger than you'd need for mounting EMT for a residential branch circuit. The plain SDS or SDS Plus (10 mm) is what you should look at. Hilti or Bosch, both are fine machines.
-- J.S.
I have used the old TE5 and 5A....they were the smallest D handle drills ......it looks like the TE 6 would do the trick, since that is probably the replacement for the 5 and 5A
there are a three -jaw keyed and keyless chucks for that as well
to allow you to use regular HSS drill bits or hole saws with that 6
the 70 series tools are TOO big for drilling the holes you need, and are used for demo or drilling large dia .cored holes
I didn't read all the posts... but I have dewalt, bostch, old industrial B&D, AEG and hilti... of all of them for some reason and I don't know the answer the hilti will drill faster... and with far less wear on my body... all day hammer drill'n will kill my wrists for the next 2-3 days with anything but the hilti... if you can get the the 12te i think... whatever the number get one that will drill only, and hammer only... you'll never use a hammer and chisel again vs the chisel on the end of the hilti... great tools
p