Howdy folks:
I have agreed to build a pool house that, by virtue of space restrictions must be trapezoidal in plan. It seems to me that the only way to put a roof on this thing without it looking totally messed up is to do a hip or cottage style roof where the hips don’t actually meet,at the top, but come up to small flat area that is just big enough to give some nailing space for the hips, and is also trapezoidal in plan, (almost like the octagonal piece you would use to join the rafters in an octagonal roof). The part i can’t picture is how to get the eave overhang and height to match up, and how the hip will work out on the trapezoidal portion of the roof. Am I on the right track here, or should I rethink this thing?
Thanks
Andy
Replies
Any chance you could post a pic of the floor plan, or even a sketch with some dimensions?
And maybe the pitch you want to start with on one side?
The tax issue is hard for Democrats to address because, to Democrats like Mr. Gore, the tax system has a larger purpose than just the financing of government. That purpose is the equalization of economic results. [William Murchison]
Hi boss:
can't figure out how to post a sketch, so the basic dimensions are 8' wide, 10' deep on the left side and 13 deep on the right side, with the front facade being the angled one (comes out to 8'-6"+/-).
Thinking of a 5/12 pitch to keep the roof low.
You got me droolin' with the thought of doin' a 3D to see what the roof lines look like
Andy
Edited 8/7/2004 12:07 am ET by ANDYW22
Andy -
I won't be back at work until Monday, and I don't have the necessary software on my home computer.
.
did you see the pictures I posted of the trapezoidal building with the "twisted" roof? The thread is here:
http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=40931.1&maxT=1
Doing something like that ought to be interesting. (-:The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes. [Winston Churchill]
Does it have to be a hip roof or can you make it a gable?
Joe Carola
Hi Joe:
I am trying to keep it a hip, so tht I don't have any tall gable ends to make this small bldg look too tall and narrow.
thanks for the reply
Andy
First, let me tell you all how much I appreciate the time you have taken to think about my silly little roof. As I spent my weekend thinking about it in the back of my head, It's really nice to know that the BT braintrust has been hard at work solving my roof problem for me. You guys are the best...(I better stop now, I feel a group hug coming on..) ;) Seriously, Thanks
Rich:
The original idea was to make this a sort of traditional tea house design, all simple roof lines, low and wide, that was changed a bit, but I don't think we'll be going with a weird roofline. Thanks for the idea though.
Joe, Uncle Dunc, les, boss hog, et.al:
Can't thank you enough for your suggestions. Joe, in particular , you are the man! Just to be sure i understand the sketches, If I frame the back half of the roof as a simple equal pitch hip , then simply lay the front hips out to bisect the front roof at the corners, my overhang depth and eave height will be consistent?, and my ridge willl be level?
I think I know the answer
thanks again to everyone, I will try to post pics of this one, thanks to the guy that posted the instructions
Cheers to all
Andy
If I frame the back half of the roof as a simple equal pitch hip , then simply lay the front hips out to bisect the front roof at the corners, my overhang depth and eave height will be consistent?, and my ridge willl be level?
Andy, we posted at the same time the other night. I didn't see this measage but yes to every thing you said. You can view it in plan view as if it were a partial bay roof or partial octagon roof.
Joe Carola
Andy,
I was just wondering how you were making our with the roof and what design you went with or if you started it yet.
Joe Carola
Your welcome Andy. Hopefully my last two drawings of the hip roof will help you.
Joe Carola
Well, I tried a 3D view in our truss program this morning. But it turned out to be very unimpressive.
I posted it anyway, just fer the heck of it.When a person is calm, complex events appear simple. [John Heider]
I'm sure it will look good once it's framed. Piffin's drawing looks good.
Joe Carola
Thanks, Joe, Just to reconfirm the above, it is when the roof pitch changes that the overhang and/or heel height needs to be modified.
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Andy,
If you view it as if it were a Bay Roof you can cut all your commons with a 4' run and your one hip will be at 34.72° and the other hip at 55.28° in plan view and you just extend your ridge. This way you can cut all the rafters with the same pitch and have all the same overhangs without cahnging plate heights.
Joe Carola
One picture really is worth a thousand words. Your solution is the same as the second one I described, but the drawing makes yours a lot easier to understand.
Drawings definitely help or snapping lines out on a deck. He could frame it this way or frame it with a gable like my first drawing with the 13' side acting like a hip and the 10' side acting like a valley.
Joe Carola
There is not much info given, but if we assume, as you did, that the 10' and 13' walls are perpendicular to the back 8' wall, your layour is finew, no matter what pitch.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin,
I figured the 8'wall was perpendicular with the 10' wall and 13' wall because he said this in post #7, "with the front facade being the angled one (comes out to 8'-6"+/-)".
With that you would get 8'6-1/2" on the front angled wall.
Joe Carola
Edited 8/9/2004 12:10 am ET by Framer
Piffin:
Name that software, looks cool!
Andy
Drew it in Softplan, then hit Softview for the 3D rendering. Ten minute job
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
This picture is just to show you the hip runs in plan view and that will help you to determine what the hip pitch and length you will have once you figure out what pitch your going to use and that will give you your rise and you already have your runs.
Joe Carola
Name that software, please. Thanks.
Bob,
I'm just using Paint. The numbers I'm getting are from the measurements Andy gave and I'm just punching them in to my Construction Master Calculator.
Joe Carola
Sounds like the Boss wants to build trusses for your roof...
Whenever you are asked if you can do a job, tell'em "Certainly, I can!" Then get busy and find out how to do it. T. Roosevelt
"Sounds like the Boss wants to build trusses for your roof..."
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhmmmm......No.
Actually, I've never done trusses for anyone from Breaktime in the 6 or 8 years I've been hanging out here. (can't remember)
I like to have something to visualize. The hip could be fairly simple if the trapezoid is only a hair out of square. But if it's 30° out, it would be a little more kinky.
And I might do a quick 3D model of it just for fun, to see what roof pitches work out.Tim Taylor: "I didn't bug you during childbirth did I?"Jill Taylor: "No, but you bugged me during conception"
quick 3D model of it just for fun
My Q&D based on a 15 degree angle actually looked better with a gable roof, it just had a sloped ridgline is all.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
If the building was 8 x 10, you could frame a hip roof with a 2 foot ridge. All four hip rafters would be the same, all the common rafters would be the same, and all four faces would have the same slope.
If you take that same layout, leave the ends of the ridge in the same place and stretch out one hip rafter to the long corner, then three of the hips will be the same and three of the faces will still have the same slope. The stretched rafter will have a longer run but still have the same rise, so it will have a lower slope than the other three hips. The common rafter in the front face will also have a longer run but still have the same rise as the other common rafters, so the slope of the front face will also be lower than the other three faces. But there will be no problem getting the hips to meet, or getting the two pairs of hips to meet at each end of the ridge.
To get the eave on the lower sloped face to the right height, just make the soffit wider.
The only problem I see (if it's a problem) is that the jack rafters on the front face won't meet the hips at the same point as the jack rafters on the two adjoining faces. The solution (if it's a problem) is to bisect the front corners. From your dimensions, the front left corner is 110.6 degrees and the left corner is 69.4 degrees. If you divide each of those angles in half and draw a line at the resulting angle, you have the plan view of the two front hips. They meet at the centerline, so you can still use the same ridge line, but the ridge becomes about 15" longer. Bisecting the two front corners forces the jack rafters on the front face to meet the jack rafters on the adjoining faces.
The cool thing about this layout is that the slope of the front face is once again the same as the slope of the other three faces, despite the frond wall being longer. And that means that you don't have to fool with the soffits to get the eave height right.
Edit: Update: See Framer's messages #20 and #23 for pictures of this solution.
I didn't want to clutter up my explanation with numbers, but if you want the numbers for either or both of these layouts, let me know.
Edited 8/8/2004 4:51 pm ET by Uncle Dunc
Keep all heel stands at the same height,all the way around,the length of the overhang will not be the same at each end of any given run(between hips) but at least the fascia/gutter will be level.
Sounds like it's time to learn how to do those attachments.
In this instance, hit the reply button to a posted message. You should see your message box as per normal. Scroll down the screen and you should see the attach files button under that. Smack it.
The upload window should appear at this point. Browse to the folder on your puter that contains your file(s). Make sure the upload window is set to *display all files* or you may not see the file you're after. Click on the file you want to upload and then hit the upload button. Now wait until it tells you it's got it (the file will appear in the upload window). If you have more files to attach, repeat the process. When you're done, hit the done button. Upload window will disappear.
Try to keep your files to a max 100 KB for those of us on dial-up. (Editing may be necessary with a graphics program like Irfanview (free download) if you don't already have something available to use for this)
(Ignore the allocation graph in the upload window.)
Make sure you're done with your text in the message box and then hit the post button.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Edited 8/7/2004 10:45 am ET by GOLDHILLER
Have you completed the drawings yet? If not, here is an off-the-top-o-me-pointy-head idea.
A thought I had, was to actually make the roof play off of the trapezoid feature of the building. By raising the height of the front-right corner, you can frame a simple (ok, not so simple) two sided irregular roof that follows some interesting lines. You would need to frame up the sides a bit different.. but this should be a lot easier than doing the hip roof. The rafters are simply brought down from the main beam (stretched corner to corner). Haven't thought all the way through attaching the rafters and any support structures that may be needed... but I will think about it and post further if you are open to the idea.
I know it is an odd way to look at it... but it would be an interesting structure that might catch the eye of the customer. something that is "out of the box" is many times the answer to these kinds of questions. Keep in mind, this is just a brain-storming idea.... so if y'all hate it, don't kick too hard.
I did a quick drawing... pardon the "non-exact" nature of it. The grey area in the "left side view" is the roof exposure. I also haven't added the eaves, etc. As I said... it was a quickie.
OK, it's a rainy Sunday, and I found the problem interesting, probably in line with what you are looking for, in both a 5/12 and a 7/12 roof. I adjusted the rafter position to what I imagine to be the best practical solution with the greatest structural integrity. You may find a better way. The roof layout shows horizontal dimensions, which will be the same, no matter which pitch you choose. I like the 7/12 better, but I imagine you will want to match it up to the house. On a small roof like this, you might want to ignore the tiny rafters at the corners. I could have plotted all the rafter lengths; but that would have made the drawing very busy. If I were building this roof, I would run a tape to get the actual lengths. Of course, you will have to allow for your lumber thicknesses and for the particular style of soffitt and fascia you will use. Please note that the rafters all run perpendicular to their associated plates.
Edited 8/8/2004 1:33 pm ET by Les
It is an interesting problem, but the discussion can opnly be speculative and academic until you can provide a floorplan or specific verbal description of it. Then it might be worth firing up the CAD program to play with.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!