So I get the new craftsman catolog in the mail today, and notice they are selling a 14″X2″ jackplane for only $45.00. Lie nielsen is selling theirs for $300. now I know lie nielsen is a fantastic company, but I have heard great reviews too about craftsman hand tools, so why the price differenciality
I heart Festool
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For the same reason the Festool circular saw sells for $500 while the Ryobi sells for $29.99
why the price difference between a Kia and a Corvette?
ok, so then back it up, is it in the blade, is the sole not flat?
I heart Festool
yes - "there's enough for everyone"
OK - I may be a bit flippant - compare the features of the two units - quality of materials, fit and finish, tolerances, slop in adjustments, ergonomics - the only respect in which the the sears unit compares favorably is the price - if you're going to put it on the shelf and look at it, buy the cheap one, it is good for little more (I'll allow it is better than nothing, but low quality tools are nothing but frustration to me - )if you aspire to Krenov, pony up the money for the cadillac - a vintage stanley/bailey should be available for ~$50 to $100 for a servicable unit that would be a good compromise and serve you well for a long time - "there's enough for everyone"
of course krenov MADE his own planes ( famously so )which might actually be an excellent project for andyalso------ buying,cleaning and tuning a garage sale OLD stanley is probably a MUCH better investment of andy's time and presumably limmited financial resources than buying the $300plus gee wizz bang. if andy was instead a 53 year old dentist with a woodworking hobby-----mayb a different approach would be in order,LOL
stephen
"also------ buying,cleaning and tuning a garage sale OLD stanley is probably a MUCH better investment of andy's time and presumably limmited financial resources than buying the $300plus gee wizz bang."Very true and very wise advice. Are ya listening Andy?
Indeed - my message could be read as an endorsement for buying the $300 unit, but as has been shown, that's not necessary at this point - OTOH, buying a new, modern $30 plane would probably be a bigger waste of resources, I just don't see (tho I could be wrong) where the woodworker isn't up against the limitation of the tool immediately - Andy is 3 hours into his work trip to Kentucky right now, I'm sure he'll pick back up when he returns - BTW Steve, you thinking about a swoop-in at the fest? - we're not that far from you - I, for one, would like to shake your hand and offer you food and beverage - I know you've indicated you're shy around people, but I can offer a dark corner to set in and the worlds best entertainment, a parade of breaktimers - "there's enough for everyone"
David,
i appreciate the thoughtfull invite.
however--------,LOL a few years ago i did briefly attend calvins fest------- there were a couple of people i very much wanted to see and to thank in person.
i have done that now
AND-- not being a very social person-- i prefer to think of everyone here---as i "know" them HERE.
not being much of a socializer------- i just don't feel compelled to mix--or join groups etc.Also------family comes first--- i am not going to tell the family we can't take a summer trip because dad is going to a "fest"---and realistically-- I am not bringing the family along on the fest---it's not their area of interest.
also-- I try to work 32-35 weeks a year---roughly oneplus of those weeks is the family trip---investing a good part of another week would really put a ding in stephens budget,LOL( I would lose 1/32nd of my income!
for calvins trip- i drove up--spent the first evening there--shook some hands--and then headed home----drove an hour or so home---slept a few hours in a rest stop--drove the rest of the way home picked up the family at 6:00AM and then drove to boston
i can't really work that with your fest------besides----as i tell my wife when she wants me to go to some social function--" it's a rare social gathering that isn't improved by my absence!"
Very best wishes to all the attendees, and i hope everyone has a terrific time,
stephen
buying,cleaning and tuning a garage sale OLD stanley is probably a MUCH better investment of andy's time and presumably limmited financial resources than buying the $300plus gee wizz bang.
3rd agreement in a row on that approach.
Heck, I'm well over 53 and may even have more assests than some dentists, but still go that route.
Cannot ever imagine having so much extra cash (even millions) that I'd spend $300 on something that 1/2 hour spent on a $2 item can make better. (yes, some folks still do sell good planes at garage sales for $2, usually covered with rust though)
Just the way some of us are made.
Because someone is stupid enough to buy the corvette ?;o)
Equal opportunity knicker knotter
Click here for access to the Woodshed Tavern
if cost of ownership is not an issue, and you use the vehicle for personal transportation, the Corvette is a satisfying ride - "there's enough for everyone"
So...You were stupid enough to buy the corvette ?;o)
Equal opportunity knicker knotter
Click here for access to the Woodshed Tavern
Sure wish I could afford to be that stupid. I would kinda like a nice two-tone red/white '59
nope - I've always pushed a Stanley/Bailey bargain beater - but I'll stand by my point - "there's enough for everyone"
Andy,
Just a few points. From reading your other posts I gather that you are buying a lot of tools for the first time to start out your career and business.
The best thing to do before buying hand tools that will potentially last a lifetime, is to learn about them and learn what makes a good solid user as opposed to a pos, and that's exactly what you're doing with this post. You need to learn how to tune and tweek a handplane, they are not simply something you use right out of the box...with the exception of a LN. It's the same way with a lot of tools. I would never use a brand new miter box saw for instance without first tuning and adjusting it.
If you are starting out, you don't need to buy a LN plane. They're awfully nice and wonderful to work with, but a much less costly one will suffice just fine.
I have not worked the specific Craftsman plane that you are talking about but I have held and worked with other Craftsman planes and planes on their level. If these planes are tuned, sharpened and honed properly, they perform just fine for general everyday carpentry-woodworking tasks, especially if it's a jack plane which is what they were made for.
The parts on these planes were stamped out and the iron and steel is probably not as high quality. The fittings that join the iron cap, the frog and the sole are probably not machined that well so there will be movement in the blade as you're trying to push it through the wood. The sole is probably not flat, but that would be part of the tuning process that you have to learn how to do. One of the most important parts on a plane of course is the quality of the blade. The Craftsman blade is not that good a blade, is probably very thin and the steel is not of the highest quality. Again, it will work, but it won't hold an edge like a better quality one and you'll have to keep on top of it.
My suggestion to you is to get a good book about planes, their care and their use. Or, if you don't want to spend the $$ on a book, research it on line, the info is all out there.
Garret Hack who writes for Taunton in Fine Woodworking has written an excellent book on the hand plane, its care and use.
It's important not only to learn about the tool, but also how to actually do the planing itself, how to read the wood grain, how to set the blade for the type of cut you want, how not to have "tear out" etc etc.
The Craftsman? Yeah, fine. However you can get a much better plane of the type you're looking for for the same price (probably cheaper) on E-bay. Look for a an older Stanley (40-50 years and up), a #5 or 6 jack plane. If you want to up the quality significantly, get a Stanley "Bedrock". They cost more, but they're worth it. I have several.
Good luck.
http://collectibles.search.ebay.com/stanley-jack-plane_Planes_W0QQcatrefZC6QQdfspZ32QQfposZ94107QQfromZR2QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ32QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQsabfmtsZ1QQsacatZ13874QQsadisZ200QQsaobfmtsZinsifQQsargnZQ2d1QQsaslcZ2QQsbrftogZ1QQsofocusZbs
Scroll down to the # 5 1/2 heavy 'Stanley sweetheart'. That is an excellent top of the line plane that's in great shape. Hell, I may even bid on that. The two listed above it are also great users.
It's the way to go Andy.
Stanley jack plane....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
if this is your first/only smoothing plane, I'd recommend a #4 - for all purpose utility, they are hard to beat - "there's enough for everyone"
http://cgi.ebay.com/LATE-MODEL-STANLEY-JACK-PLANE_W0QQitemZ250199757610QQihZ015QQcategoryZ13874QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247#ebayphotohosting
Andy, this would be a good starter. When you hit the lottery to for the LN.
Joe H
Lie Nielsen planes are great, but I recommend getting a used one as a good starting point. Often they can be had for under $20.
It will give you good experience tuning and tweaking a hand plane, and depending on the work you do, may be all you need. I've picked up some from garage sales, and some from family that has passed on. I also bought a Veritas block plane.
While they may take some time to tune, I love my handplanes, and they are just a joy to use when I have a sharp blade.
After-market blades are available, and depending on the quality of the blade (iron) that comes with yours, that may be a wise upgrade. Hock Plane Irons is a name that springs to mind. These irons are thicker, which reduces chatter.
Buy one of each then tell us!