HO Hears Skylite Horror Story–Freaks
I’ve installed hundreds of exterior doors, windows, and quite a few skylites without any call backs for leaks.
Now I have a customer who was told a horrific tale of leaking skylites, after they accepted my bid to install two 21-1/2 by ~48″ Velux skylites with flashing kits.
I was caught off guard by their sudden concern, but reassured them that we would follow all instuctions for the products to the letter, have insurance, honor our warranty, handed them a reference list, told them of a customer we did two skylites for last summer that they know, etc.
Any thing I should do to foolproof the skylite install and calm the customer?
Replies
Is the roof sheathing visible from below? If so, offer to do a leak test for them. Install and flash the skylight, replace the roofing, and then set up a garden hose running full volume onto the roof above the skylight. Leave it for a while and then have them inspect for leaks. Bear in mind that this does not simulate all environmental conditions (i.e. wind, air pressure changes during a storm, etc.) but it's what I do after I install a skylight or curb.
The gardenhose test/demonstration is a good idea. Thanks.
You are doing the right thing from the start by using Velux and their flashing kits
I am currently installing 2 more on my own home which will give me a total of 7
Installed the first Velux 3 years ago to see if they were any good and it never leaked a drop and as a result i started installing the rest a couple each year due to the fact it has a steel roof so the are installed in the spring or fall only to avoid the heat on the roof
These units are the opening type replacing fixed units that were flush with the roof and leaked like a sieve ruining the drywall on the interior walls below them
The seem to be the only company prpared to guarantee their lites wont leak
I figure mine are costing me about 22 000 including material labour and repairs to drywall so i sure as hell dont intend to redo them the third time
Like others say Velux isent cheap but they sure as hell work right
In addition to using Velux - the best without doubt - back up the flashing by wrapping with vycor ice and water shield.
Another source of complaiont common to skylights that is oftyen translated as leaks is condensation. if this location is a bathroom or kitchen, you are likely to hear about water dripping.
For other locations, it is sufficient to seal around the hole with canned spray foam to greatly reduce chances of cold dewpoints creating condensation issues.
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I'll take your advice on the Vycor and insulation details...I do think condensation is often mistaken for leaking...especially in a place like Minnesota--the temp differential can boost condensation here. Thanks.
In snow country, skylights can create ice dams when snowmelt water runs off the glass and refreezes on the roof just below the skylight. There is no way to keep the snowmelt from happening . . . a window in the roof simply has enough thermal transmittance to melt the snow, no matter how well insulated.
For an operable skylight, the water can pool up high enough behind the resulting dam to come in through the latch. Even Velux skylights have a small weatherstrip gap where the latch is located.
A hose test cannot detect this fault. I know from experience.
One prevention method against this is some heat cable in the roof area just below the unit, where the dam forms, that can keep some drain channels clear. Another is to simply not insulate well under the roof there, and hope that the heat leak can prevent the ice dam from forming there. It'll dam up down lower, but there, the pool cannot get high enough to drain off through the latch.
I do neither. A few times each snow season, I use a snow rake to clear the skylights and the roof immediately below them.
A fixed skylight won't have the issue, because there is no latch, and the sashframe is fixed and sealed to the base.
First time I have heard of water so high on the roof below an ice dammed skylight. Guess people in your area should be installing the skylights on a higher waterproofed "curb".
A good technique to prevent other water leakage below a skylight from ice damming is to install "Ice and Water Shield" or similar under the shingles down to the eaves at installation.
We go crazy with I&WS around skylights, including below where the dams can form.
This will be a fixed unit install, but I will keep the ice damn issue in mind, never really thought about that before. Thanks.
I understand you have only honorable intentions. This is evident by how forthcoming and open you have been with the client.
If they still resist - walk away. It is not your responsobility to persuade them of what they should do with their home. If you do, you are taking on an additional responsibility and liablity for which you are not being compensated.
You offer a warranty - seems they are asking for a guarranty. That is a very different animal and something which is impossible for you to provide, regardless of your fine track record.
As your Profile Quote states - "...the key to failure is trying to please everybody."
It is tough returning deposits, but sometimes that is the best course of action.
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I think they are kind of proud of the work they are having done to their new (1991) home they just purchased, and someone was bringing them back down a notch with the horror story IYKWIM.I've done a couple of projects for them already, and after the skylites, plan to do a deck, pergola, bridge over the koi pond, gazebo, fence, etc. I hope to calm them down and see if they still want the skylites. It could wait until they see the level of craftsmanship and attention to detail in the other projects...and finish with the skylites after they decide they really want me to put them in.This week, I will put the finishing touches on the nicest dog run in Winona County (that we built for them).That profile quote is a reminder to myself...I actually try to please people too often.
I would calm the customer by explaining that any part of a house can bring misery to the homeowner when it is installed incorrectly and that, unfortunately, there are contractors out there that do not do a good job and, indeed, apparently do not even read the directions.* So I don't find it surprising that they have heard a horror story.
I would add that I read the directions, that I care about the quality of my work, and that I do whatever is required to ensure that the installation meets the necessary standards.
* I just looked at a flat roof (about 1 in 12) that was roofed by nailing down some felt paper, then installing drip edge, then installing rolled roofing by nailing it down with exposed nails, overlapping each course maybe five inches. The deal was so many $'s for labor and customer pays materials. She says she found a couple of things on the reciepts that even she knew didn't go on a roof and pointed them out to the guy and he'd quickly apologize for the mistake.
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
Don't you find it annoying that people assume you will do inferior work, just because of the problems created by others...I have to admit that I found their concerns offensive on one level and understand the concern at the same time.Conflicted.
"Don't you find it annoying that people assume you will do inferior work, just because of the problems created by others"What I really found annoying was the assumption on the parts of the DIV office prosecutor and the judge that I under report my income because "he is a contractor after all".That still bugs the #### out of me.Rich BeckmanAnother day, another tool.
Skylites are prone to leaking so the homeowners are probably justified in bringing up the issue.
I ice and water the sheathing a few feet in all directions from the opening, ice and water up the sides of the unit under the flashing, use expanding foam between unit and opening, and carefully watch the location.
In cold climates I'll also use a 2x6 or 2x8 curb if possible given asthetic restraints, which, hopefully, allows a decent cricket to be built on the uphill side.
Sometimes a roof location simply isn't condusive to a skylight. Low pitches and areas prone to ice dams are bad news.
If there is ducted heat going into the room from the attic, a small branch into the skylight shaft can reduce condensation and keep the snow at bay, although the heat making its way to the curb might make ice dams more of a problem on the outside.
Insulate the skylight shaft well, and the more splayed out the shaft is, the more circulation there will be to control condensation.
In problem areas a smaller opening will shed moisture on the outside much better than wide models. Ditto for a single unit vs. multiple units side by side.
Double pain units will have much less condensation than the cheap ones.
In the end, I try to imagine the skylight is just another roof fixture and try not to make excuses for ignoring good weathertight construction standards simply because there is glass in the middle. There are times when the client wants a skylight and the only option I'd feel comfortable building is a small dormer over a fixed window to feed the light shaft.
As for convincing your clients, it's often helpful to show them the factory installation instructions and how you are not only meeting them, but exceeding them to provide proper protection for the local weather conditions and their specific roof. A line I kinda like is saying, "Even if costs were not a consideration, whatsoever, this is still the exact installation procedure I'd use." You milage will vary.
:-)
We have installed skylights 25 years ago (Velux) that are still holding up perfectly. The only problem we have ever experienced is with condensation. We had to remove a sklyight over a customer's bed because of this problem. This was caused by a combination of a new house with the usual excess of moisture in the first winter of occupancy and our omission of vycor (or eq.) under the flashing. At the time of installation the company did not recommend this procedure.
We removed the skylight at the owner's insistence even though we could have fixed the problem and I have had this same skylight in our guest room for over fifteen years. No problem in the new location.
No damage was caused by the condensation drips other than interuptions to the customer's romantic advances to his wife.
The skylite is in the roof. They loved the tube light I did for them yesterday, so the skylight was installed today...hose test tomorrow before we close in the chase.
Weaving the new shingles into the old roof was fun--a roofer I'm not.
Thank you all for the input, so far, so good.
Cheers.
Here is a pic of the skylite. The homeowners love it after all.
Any thing I should do to foolproof the skylite install and calm the customer?
Yeah, don't install the skylite!
They are freaking, you are forcing your will on them. You'll be gone and they'll still be freaking.
Okay...you want to force this on them...offer them a written lifetime warranty to come and tear the thing out if it ever leaks.
blue
Most of the problem skylight I have seen, the home owners chose to ignore signs of water damage.
Damage from leaking skylights, or any roof related leak could be minimized if they are rectified when they are first discovered.
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