Watched a few episodes of “Holmes on Homes” recently. It’s a very insightful program. I’m sure the producers are careful to select scenarios for television that provide viewers an opportunity to see what happens when contractors are at their worst.
How hard do you think they have to look to find those jobs?
New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
Replies
They're lined up, banging at the door.
If you watch the show carefully, you soon realise that some of the problems are caused by homeowners taking the "cheapest" bid. Evidenced by the fact that he (Mike) removes $3400. worth of work, and replaces it with $13400. He does, however, help alot of people who are really being scr*wed.
The sorry thing is that you don't have to go far to find a contractor that dosen't have a clue of what he is doing. A lot of Holmes jobs are done for free when the homeowners have been screwed out of all of their money. The bad thing is that he has enough things to keep him on television to the end of his life!!
My thought is that he doesn't do them for free, but gets claim money when homeowners bring the inept contractors to court. There's been a few episodes where he mentions testifying in court for the owners. It makes sense, a lot of these people waste money on the botched job, then he comes in and wants 3x more to do it right. Who's willing to throw that much more money at a job? Plus, he usually goes way overboard.
Kevin
I heard one of the show's producers interviewed; she said that the production company that makes the show pays for the costs, but Holmes usually tosses in some extra stuff himself.
He was around here last month, rebuilding a deck that someone had built and collapsed when she went out on it with a friend, putting the two of them in hospital. Let me tell you, he's popular with women. A few I know were thrilled to get a picture with him.
As I understand it, Ontario CA has a government board concerned with contractor warranty performance. Apparently, a bunch of his jobs come from the homes where the contractor was found at fault by this government board, which then orders the repairs and back bills the offending contractor.
Way too good of an idea for his southern neighbors to adopt. I can only wonder what the Chicago version of such a government agency would be like.
Of course, I once had a speeding ticket dismissed because the judge thought I was related to Marshall Field, so my cynicism may be showing.
http://www.cbc.ca/informationmorningsaintjohn/archives/2007_may_w1.html
Should be the second question on the list....click on the link to hear the answer
Thanks for the link; it provided some interesting insights.New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
What application did you use for .ram files? My computer doesn't recognize them.
It's realaudio, I believe.
Just to pipe up some things. If you watch the credits scroll at the end, you will notice that it says the production was made in assistance with the Canadian Federal government and usually a provincial government (typically Ontario or Quebec). This isn't just for Holmes on Homes, but many of the DIY-type shows that dominate the channels. This is b/c there is very lucrative tax credits for companies that produce shows, films, etc. on Canadian soil and pay Canadian employees to assist with the production. On top of that, the advertisers throw in quite a bit of money. In the end, I think his time and his "crew" is covered by the show (i.e. advertisers and the tax credits), so the H.O. is left with the material costs and any subs required. Not too bad of a deal even though he tends to "overdue" things.
Also, put yourself in the H.O.'s perspective. After going through some of the nightmares they go through, I'm sure they would pay a little extra and overdue it to avoid problems.
I like the show. There's something about seeing the "Good Guy" winning, even though the poor homeowner has been put through the ringer by a low-life contractor.
I'll bet there's a L O N G line wanting him and his TV crew to come to their place!!
The only thing missing from the show, I'd really like to see, is Holmes taking the ripoff contractor and rubbing his nose in the low quality of work he did!!!
Bill
Think I could get him to come fix some of the stuff I phucked up on my own house?
http://grantlogan.net/
Sometimes, when I lie in bed at night and look up at the stars, I think to myself, "Man! I really need to fix that roof."
My biggest fear is coming home from work an he's there talking to my wife with that smug smile nodding his head as she spills her guts.
MP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
My biggest fear is coming home from work an he's there talking to my wife with that smug smile nodding his head as she spills her guts.
And she says "he's just not the man I married" and he says "how 'bout me? Am I the man you married?"
View Imagehttp://grantlogan.net/
I'm wearing Mr. T's pants.
That might be better then exposing my work on national TV.
MP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
I think Holmes is a little full of himself but for the most part I like what he does. And he will give credit for good work when he finds it.
What I don't like about him is he tries to portray all contractors as incompetant.........................
On a hill by the harbour
Holmes is Canada's current most popular high school drop out. He does great work for people that have been screwed; however, he is so full of crap and his ego is the size of Ontario. (Texas for the yanks!) He spews code all the time and half of it is bull. I teach apprentices and thursday nights we remind each other to watch Holmes so that Friday morning we can discuss the good, the bad and the ugly.
Have a good day
Cliffy
Yup.....he does judging at the skills competitions in the carpentry area too, and last year we had him do some commercials for skilled trades. "Hire a certified tradesman"......he's got no certifications in anything himself. He drives my carpentry instructor buddies nuts.
I've seen him around at two national skills competitions (I've been a judge in the cabinetmaking comp), and after the last one in the spring, was in a bar in Saskatoon when he was there.....will second what someone said above, he's popular with the ladies. Cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.
Are you anywhere near Marion Bridge? My brother's wife is a Cape Bretonner, they go down whenever they can.
Add to that his little blurbs in the Home Depot flyer. As if I'm going to spend any money there because he is a spokesman. How about the always common "it works for me" phrase.
My buddies wife graduated last year from a college program in North Bay Ontario and Homer was the guest speaker. I asked Ryan what his speech was about and he told me it was basically advice to do things right. Afterward at the social Homer "was with a chic that looked like trailer trash" I'm assuming that was not a complement.
Have a good day
Cliffy
I'm in your club!
H.B.Comm, Certified Carpenter , college carpentry instructor.
How's that go again:
"Can you imagine a piece of the universe
More fit for Princes and Kings
I'll trade you ten of your cities for Marion Bridge
And the pleasure it brings"
I never saw that before but I think I'll send it off to my brudder and his wife!
Have a good day
Cliffy
I've never seen so many complainers in my life. Even though Mike is full of himself most days he has allowed the public in general to be a lot more vigilant about hiring contractors. The only thing I wish he would do is to expose the crap contractors by name.
I do agree with another members comments, if you normally go with the cheapest price you get the cheapest work. The old saying "buyer beware".
I flip homes for a living in Vancouver and cannot believe how many #### contractors are around; they don't return calls, they finish half the job, they have friends pull their permits, can't deal with complicated jobs, etc... The lack of professionalism is brutal.
Good renovating...
Yes I agree, name them, and the the homeowner should have to explain their stupidity for hiring them.
Mike has probably never repaired anything, done by a ticketed carpenter,
because then he would have to bring up the subject. (awkward)...
I'm about five minutes, maybe less, from Marion Bridge, back along the Mira river towards Albert Bridge. Alistair McGillivray, who wrote the song HammerHarry quoted , lives right across the road from me.
I was going to get into some stories going around about Holmes from the Skills nationals in Halifax next year, but I'm not going to go into it. Appearances may be deceiving though.Cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.
My brother Shawn is married to Connie MacMullen from by Marion Bridge somewhere. I think her Dad drove a truck etc for the township. A couple brothers in the army, a couple sisters, probably a couple dogs too! Maybe you know them.
They are both teachers in Northern Ontario but I would not be surprised if they moved back down east sometime.
Have a good day.
Cliffy
He is not a ticketed capenter? I think he does good for the most part, but that bugs me. I think the biggest prob with Canadian New Home Warranty is the lack of any requirement for ticketed carpenters.
Nope. No qualifications in any construction related trade that I know of. I'm a Red Seal cabinetmaker (also have an Ontario Industrial Woodworker ticket, and I'll go for my carpentry Red Seal one day), all my buddies are Red Seal carpenters, plumbers etc....we worked hard for the tickets, and are proud of them, believe in the system, and are passing skills on to the next generation. But I tell you.....those flipping TV shows are powerful, and they can spread a falsehood or bad practice fast. In my shop, it's more Norm Abrams crap I have to clamp down on than Holmes, but my father in law watches the show.Cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.
what is red seal???? journeyman???? Ticket???? A union book????
Bobbys
There are two levels of journeyman's ticket in Canada, a ticket valid only in the province that issued it and one with a red seal attached good anywhere in the country. The second one is also sometimes called an interprovincial ticket.
Ron
thank you for the reply, I had a journey mans card in NJ and transfered it to OREGON when i moved, It did mean a test or years in the trade, I think what means more is when you have a good work history as a good journeyman, Im proud of that as im sure youse are
In Canada, we have compulsory certification trades (inc. plumbing and electrical), and trades where it's not compulsory (in my province, that includes carpentry and cabinetmaking). You can do a formal apprenticehsip (usually four years for the wood trades), with several periods in-school to get the theory, or you can do a pre-employment certificate or diploma, then get your hours....there is also usually a way for someone who has a lot of trade experience but no formal schooling to challenge the exam (in my province you have to have two journeymen sign for you, and prove upwards of 10-12,000 hours in the trade.
Whichever way, you write the same exam to certify as a journeyman, and to get the Red Seal, it's a national exam with a minimum pass mark of 70%....like Ron says, if you get that, you're qualified as a journeyman in all the provinces. It's no guarantee someone is a top craftsman, and there are excellent peole that don't have it, but most of the serious people will work hard to get the certification. We're also looking at a Blue Seal program in post-journeyman business training/certification....already going in one or two provinces, and we're looking at what it would take to make it interprovincial.Cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.
from usa but the best tv to come out of canada is trailer park boys.........
How about Hockey Night in Canada?
Lorne Michaels is a Canuck too. I'm just killing time on this site waiting for SNL!
Have a good day
Cliffy
Adrian, have you got any experience with blue seal? First I've heard about it.
I've been in some focus groups that were looking at it. Alberta has it now, not sure if anyone else has adopted it yet......here is the Alberta application form http://www.tradesecrets.org/forms_publications/forms/pdf/appl_blue_seal.pdf . Basically it is a certificate of competency in busiiness subjects; you need at least 150 hours of acceptable training in business areas, and it is an addition to the Red Seal. Here is an overview: http://www.nait.ca/program_home_18232.htm
We're thinking it has some value, and are looking into it....consensus in my working group was that we're not interested if each province is going to do something different....we want a national program. I'm interested in it because my students already get more than the required hours in business related subjects (production management, admin management etc.) that are within the tems of the program.
There is also the Gold Seal program in construction management; that's a different thing, and I can't remember much about it, although I have looked at it breifly.....I know a few people with it though.Cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.
"I think the biggest prob with Canadian New Home Warranty is the lack of any requirement for ticketed carpenters."
I'm not sure. Most of the warranty problems have involved building envelope failure, and a lot of slab subsistence issues. Not sure how having a ticketed carpenter involved in a project helps this.
I think the ticketed carpenter is a starting point. It suggests to me that the individual has basic framing skills and presumably has been trained to properly frame a home. This will only help to ensure the building structure is sound, but does not address the envelope problems so prevelent in some locales. In our area I have seen virtually unskilled persons sign the new home warranty docs, setup and claim to be a builder. Add to this some shotty inspection services, and I fear what home owners end up with. Sure, after building several homes maybe the builder get all the kinks worked out, but what about the first ten home owners? As an engineer having been put in the middle of the home owner and new home builders I question the purpose of the new home warranty program. I have watched two cases where the New Home warranty suspected soil movement issues, and in essence told the home owners there was nothing they would do, yet all around each home were funcitoning homes. Odd, I think?? In one of the cases, the settlement distorted the owners windows to the point they would not function. A nice elderly woman that could not afford either the emotional trauma of a long legal battle nor the cost of such a case. The greatest value of Holmes on Homes is promoting owners to get involved and ask some questions.
I'm with you. I don't think the New Home Warranty program is worth much. It was just a knee jerk reaction to the very serious problems showing up in new houses. I also don't see why we all pay the same premiums. I feel like I'm subsidizing other builder's shoddy work. All the big culprits in the last "condo crisis" just dissolved their limited companies and walked anyway.
Would it be practical to require ALL trades to carry the same sort of malpractice insurance that doctors are required to carry? It might weed out some of the amateurs if it were an industry requirement. Obviously, the professional contractors, mechanics, etc. would simply pass that overhead along to their customers, but I suspect that the customer would accept that burden if it provided some avenue of recourse in the event that they were substantially harmed by an unreasonable degree of negligence and/or incompetence.
It makes me angry when I see the kind of workmanship that Holmes repeatedly encounters and then hear the same old comments about it being difficult to "prove" that a contractor deliberately defrauded a client. If the stuff he's going behind isn't fraudulent, I have to wonder just how bad someone has to get ripped off before it is.
MichaelNew knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
It's tempting to turn to either mandatory insurance or further certification when there are problems, but they both have drawbacks. In an industry that already is top heavy in soft costs - that is the proportion of money spent on any project that basically goes to middlemen like real estate agents, insurance, finance, that don't really produce anything - is any solution that increases this amount a good idea?
Has malpractice insurance improved medical care?
Holmes is funny. I like his show, but the guy shows up like the Kool-Aid man.
OH-YEAH and walls are getting kicked down, the HO's go to work and come home to nothing but a foundation if they are lucky. "This was bad, this was not acceptable, that had to go, I like this alot better."
Having him show up to your house seems like an invitation to hemmorage money. Alot of the sh!t he fixes needs it, man their is garbage being handed out up there. But he seems to take it too far. It's remodeling, not gut it until it's all new.
Of course it's going to be nice when he's done. He didn't have to bid the job standing in the kitchen with a pad of paper. He bids it as he goes, after the house is leveled and towed away in roll off dumpsters.
I would freak the %uck out if I came home and saw that he gutted my entire basement because my garage light bulbs were burning out too fast. "Get your trailer and your Labor Ready crew out of here, I'll keep changing the bulbs."
I like his show, HO's that watch it are getting a taste of what happens when you hire the wrong cat.
Matt
That pretty much sums up the way I feel. Hes doing the right thing. Just going way overboard on it.
And the other side of the story is the customer went with ankle biters. And probably bugged them to death. I've also seen more then one show where the homeowner hired say a fencing contractor to build a deck. People totally out of their expertise.
MP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
" out of thier expertise"
Hmmm...Like an electrician walking a dog?
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Pefect example. LOL
MP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
"Having him show up to your house seems like an invitation to hemorhage money."
The homeowners rarely pay for his over-the-top remodel. According to the CBC, the show pays or Holmes does it free.http://www.cbc.ca/informationmorningsaintjohn/archives/2007_may_w1.html
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.
Richard P. Feynman
Was he wearing those thick bibs? Those have to be too hot in the warmer weather.
MP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4
I think in the bar he was in street clothes, every other time I've seen him he's always in those brown Carharrts. He might be the greatest guy in the world; dunno. I just know something about him rubs me wrong.Cabinetmaker/college woodworking instructor. Cape Breton, Nova Scotia.
Every guy that girls like rubs me the wrong way!Who needs the competition?
I try not to let guys rub me at all; doesn't matter if it's the 'right' way or the 'wrong' way.
I don't know what the fuss about roof sheathing is; you don't need more than 1/4"....
I think he's a tool.I will admit that he helps a lot of unfortunate people and that is a really good thing. Many people are really SOL in a lot of cases and I feel bad for them. On the other hand I think a lot of people are just plum stupid for getting people like this in there house. Research your contractor. It's not that hard, and if it is don't hire him. Being in this buisness all these years I have learned that many people think with there wallets then with there heads.
I also think that this guy puts everybody down and screws contractors over. If i hear one more client boast they know what there doing because they watch Holmes on homes, I'm gonna lose it. The other thing is he dosen't really know all that much if you pay attention. On one show I remember him tearing down a garage(whih was a disaster) and complaing about the roof sheathing. He said "3/8" plywood on a roof its gotta be 5/8" by code bla bla bla." It does not have to be 5/8" it has to be 1/2". Also whats with screwing everything together. I know it holds better but wall studs don't have to be screwed together. Screws don't have the same shear strength as nails. You'll shear off a screw way before you shear off a nail. I remember him screwing in joist hangers. I know for a fact you can't screw joist hanger without a screw designed for them. I also know he is not using that screw.
I think his ego is bigger than his whole crew, which is very large (must be nice) and he justs acts like he really knows what he's doing. I think he's a sellout and an embarassment to the construction industry. If anyone wants to argue with me about this then go right ahead. My company only does quality work and we laugh at the fly by nighters out there who don't.
"He said "3/8" plywood on a roof its gotta be 5/8" by code"
"It does not have to be 5/8" it has to be 1/2".
well that is Holmes not telling the whole story, and now you are doing the same as far as 1/2" vs 5/8" goes.
5/8 is code if you want to go without H clips, and 1/2" with clips or 'edge support'. At least where I live. I'm not wanting to start a debate, but only bring it up because if you are going to blast a guy then you had better get the details right yourself.
I too don't get what's up with all the screw gun use, perhaps they don't realize that DeWalt makes framing guns?? But at least it's not as bad as another Canadian show based out of Ontario called " Real Renos" where they seem to be hand nailing everything - whats up with that!!
as far as the home owners you're right about that, but it's not just Holmes. People think becuase they have watched a few shows they know everything. I like to watch the shows just so I am prepared for what people think they know. View Image View Image
I used to enjoy watching Holmes on Homes. His show's important contribution is that it enlightens and encourages homeowners. It shows what can happen when homeowners don't do their homework before selecting a contractor and renovating their home, but also shows what proper jobs can look and feel like at the end.
I do remember seeing Mike Holmes do some trimwork once, and I wouldn't let him touch any of the casing/etc. in my homes. He had a speed contest casing a window with one of his young carpenters, and both windows looked like garbage afterwards.
Oh yeah, I do think he should use some "other" brands of tools every once in a while too!!
SS
I don't think that contest was a serious effort to show how trim sould be done. if you recall they had a third guy judge the results of both casings, and flaws were found in both with Mike glady accepting the critisms. It would have been better to have had the contest and have it go along with Mike's motto of " do it right" though.
And I guess since Dewalt is a sponsor he's gotta go with em if he gets em for free. View Image View Image
97 UBC table 23-11-e-2 7/16 ths ply.
Well said. However the Ontario Building Code (Mike Holmes lives near Acton Ontario and works in the Toronto area ) states in part 9, Table 9.23.15.6.A. that 3/8 sheathing thickness is acceptable. Oddly enough 5/16 is acceptable when the supports are spaced 12" o.c. Not that I would ever go down to there, just thinking that Homer either does not own, or read the OBC . Personally my roof of choice is 1/2 ply.
Have a good day
Cliffy
I watch the show constantly and I think Mike is hilarious. I just want to know, does anyone know for a fact who pays for all this crap? I mean he will in the middle of a project decide to tear something else down and do it over, and it ususally is something that would cost big extra money if I was doing it and the client said "hey while you're at it could you change this too? It seems he just does whatever he wants without regard to what it costs. If he does it for peace of mind, because he can't sleep at night, then kudos to him. In the real world, big changes or added, hidden problems always translate to more money. Who pays? In regard to him using Dewalt tools, he endorses them, so he probably gets all of it for free. Just like Norm Abrams with Delta, he's not paying for any of that. One last thing, what kind of screws is he using to screw framing together? They're not drywall screws cause he talks constantly about drywall screws not being strong enough for many of the uses the "other " contractor used them on. Well thats my 2 or 3 cents.......peace
CRaigabooey
I posted a link to a conversation with one of the producers of the show, where she answers that question.
Don't tell me Piffen is exporting his screws North of the border! Is this August Fest thing the kickoff for his Mt. Tremblant franchise?
I'm surprised that no one has brought up the part about where he brings the client in to show them the torn out stuff, then sends them away and they can't look until he is done. I'd never agree to that. Not that he isn't doing good work, but his taste may not be the same as mine. I have very definite opinions on how I want things to look, and I'd never give carte blanche to a builder.
Thanks for bringing up the tables Cliffy. I'd actually forgot that it does allow for 3/8" but it depends on the spacing. View Image View Image
Hi timberline, We get 2hrs. of his progams everyday over here in Ireland , I was beginning to wonder if there were any tradesmen in Canada at all.
To see somebody having to go into somebodys house and pull every thing out and redo it again the proper way dosent say much for the people who call themselves tradesmen.Its been said that he is not qualifed and hasent gotthe right credentials for the job.But he has the right people on his crews to do this work.
It seems to be very easy to pull the wool over customers eyes over there. Maybe the Gov.should do more to weed out these Jerry builders and make sure that clients can check with them and see are they registered to carry out the work.
As regards his personal life he is a TV personality and as such he is in the limelight and there are people who get plesure being seen in his company that shouldent take away from the job he is doing exposeing crooks and cleaning up there mess. Rgds.Boysie Slan Leat.I'm never always right but i'm always never wrong. Boysie
What do you expect from a pig but a grunt?
You are the first Irishman I ever noticed on this site so you get my favourite Irish quote. My mom and dad came to Canada in the 1950's from Ireland. I've had the pleasure to visit a few years back and am planning to bring my girls over sometime not too far down the line.
Have a good day
Cliffy
Edited 7/14/2007 11:22 pm ET by cliffy
Anyone see the basement workout room and bath? Is it just the way I was taught or do the rest of you use PT for the base plate in basements? The contractor that taught me always did this and would even use PT for any studs that were against the foundation walls. We also always installed a vapor barrier between the framing and foundation. But what do I know, I'm a trim guy now.
Jimmy W.
Come on now, fellas... It is reality Television! Some of what you see is probobly staged, but we have all seen less than professional work done by others who were there before us. Most of the time, Holmes is following work done by Jack of All Trades Handymen, who try to do it all (electrical and plumbing)and do not have the knowledge. Holmes brings in subs for alot of the work.
Not all of the homeowners are ignorant-Many get referrals, background checks, Etc.
Not all of the contractors are the low bids.
Sometimes the fix is called for not due to contractor error, but rather homeowners failing to convey needs. He will point out when a contractors work met code.
As someone who is more into the electrical end, I have seen Holmes uncover some pretty scary stuff!(burried flying splices, Romex with metal studs and no bushings, burried junction points)