Aloha, I am fairly new to this handyman lifestyle. I just want to find out how other tradesman feel about the two stores. Mahalo for your time.
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you should never ask this question.
I prefer none of the above. I go to a locally owned lumber yard, where they know my name, have great service, and don't screw up special orders.
But, if I had to choose between HD and Lowe's? I think Lowe's, for the most part, has better quality materials
I'm guessing he's in Hawaiia, if those local yards are anything like the local groceries he's screwed.
One of my sons has lived on Kauai for many years.
When Wally world showed up a gallon of milk went from $7 to $4.
The big boxes may be the same?
Joe H
DW and I lived on Kauai in '88. We found that the large "economy-sized" groceries cost more per oz. - like peanut butter or even 2-l soft drinks!
We joked that "you've gotta' pay for that convenience!"
Forrest
Regretably,
Your favorite yard......probably the same as mine is becoming closer and closer to one of a kind.
A few places now don't even have hours that a handyman/homeowner could work around.
One of the other big yards in N.J./P.A. will be Lucky to survive winter. That's a shame too. Their customer service never impressed me but thier doors were head and shoulders above DELMARVA or REEB's.
Opdykes isn't looking to healthy either.
Flip a coin. If there's a decent local yard, flip a 3-sided coin. An awful lot (probably most) depends on the individual store, and its management.
I'm with Shep. Local usually much better. Someone to help you load, Better materials, wider selection, knowledgeable salespeople and when I was in the trades I could phone in my order before 3:00 pm and usually get an A.M. delivery the next day.
Between HD and Lowes I choose Lowes because HD stores are a mess.
If you are the typical homeowner/builder who is OK with shopping I would say all 3 plus a real hardware store like Ace.
HD is better for "parts" like electrical supplies and plumbing. (here)
Lowes has better finish items like fixtures and home furnishings.
If you need any quantity of lumber at one time go to a real lumber yard. A few pieces at a time are OK at the HD/Lowes.
When you need fasteners and general hardware items go to a real hardware store.
I also found tile was a lot better at a real tile store and they had a better deal on supplies like mortar and grout.
In some cases where you are matching existing stuff (like shingles) you will be stuck with the guy who handles them.
Guess it depends on where you live. Here, in the Sreattle area, it's HD for electric and Lowes for plumbing. Could just be regional manager strength? A very clear difference though.
As for lumber, trusses, TJI's, doors and windows, the box stores just don't matter here. BMC simply kills them on any volume order. BMC used to be a division of Weyerhauser, sold to management, blah, blah, blah...
Anyway, EXAMPLE: 60 windows and doors order, Jeld-Wen.
Me: I got a quote from BMC for this, beat it by 10%.
HD: That's not what we sell, those are Jeld-Wen 'Little Giants', we sell the 'Giant Littles', can't compare prices on those.
Me: I was just on a plant tour at Jeld-Wen, manager told me they are exactly the same, you guys just want a different name, so you can pretend to be competitive, so... beat the price I HAVE.
HD: Sales guy (gently sobbing) 'I can't, I just can't'.
Same deal with lumber, trusses, etc...
Lowe's has a little bit better selection than HD. and a much better inventory. HD seems to have trouble keeping stock.
I still Prefer to go to local supply house, they give me as a contractor better prices than HD. And a better selection. But as Everyone is saying, they are getting far and few between. I blame the whole DIY home show doit your self mentality. Home owners are settling for less Quality for a cheaper price. Good Quality Work can not compete.
I love them both but HD more than Lowes. I'm in HD almost every day buying something. They both make me a lot of money by saving my time. I get my big lumber orders from a local lumberyard but everyday pickups from HD. I'm old enough to remember life before big boxes and it wasn't good.
Who do you go to when the next place is twice as far away; as in 30min. drive vs. 1hr. drive?
Although I see all you guys telling us to buy local from a "real" lumberyard; you gotta know that many are in the same situation like me. Not that a "real" lumberyard is always better.
We had a local lumberyard. Their hours were 7am to 5pm mon-fri. I do my paperwork in the morning so my actual construction hours are usually around 9am to 6pm mon-sun. Obviously if they aren't open during the times I need them then I cannot shop there.
I could call in a delivery...for $50 just like HD. The only difference is the local yard lowered delivery price with volume and HD is constant.
The local yard had lumber, but not always a lot and they were never really sure when they'd get around to ordering more. At HD, I know they get regular shipments.
The quality at the local yard was about the same as HD (for lumber) and I would still spend way too much time picking through the pile just to find straight lumber. What, do you guys think the local yard buys some high quality hybrid lumber that HD cannot get?
The local yard did provide help loading. But those guys just shove anything in the truck. I would have to wait till they drive off and then reload myself with straight lumber anyways.
The local yard never cut me any deals. I know I only buy a few at a time most of the time (hey I'm a remodeler not a production framer) but still I buy a regular $80k a year in supplies. Why would I pay more just to wait until they decide I'm worthy of a discount?
The local yard had lumber and basic construction supplies but that was pretty much it. Everything else was special order. I'm a "I need it now" type of guy. HD has a very good in-stock selection... although sometimes I have to compromise, at least I get the job done and make the customer happy.
I don't love HD but I don't have any choice not to shop there. They know me and I get many kind greetings when I walk through. My salesman at the pro-desk is nice and very smart; a joy to do business with. He cuts me deals when I don't ask and cuts me even better deals when I do ask.
The local yard is gone and I'm happy.
DC
Like I said earlier- each to their own. My yard has a HD less than a mile away, but doesn't let it cut into their business.
You know why? Because the yard I deal with takes care of their customers. I have a charge account where I get a discount if I pay within 10 of receiving it. They try very hard to keep current with materials, and the sales people and yard staff actually come to help you. My yard makes free deliveries for any purchase over (I think) $250.00. Their hours are the same (7-5) as the place you're talking about, plus they're open 7-12 on Saturdays.
I know a good, regular lumber yard isn't available to everyone. But if one is in the area, I still think they're heads above any HD or Lowe's out there.
I can't really say what the scene is like anymore. When I go to the yard now it's usually for a small order (usually less than ($200.00).
When I was in the trades they used to give volume disc. 5% for peons like me and up to 10 %- 15% for the bigger boys (thats what the rumor was). I liked the local yard because they were BIG had everything I needed, and yes IMHO better quality material. Whenever they shipped anything out like dimensional lumber it would be straight and clean. Well worth my time of not having to mess around in the morning rounding things up and moving boards around in a lumber pile. Again, don't know what the scene is like in Mpls. anymore but when I was working there 15 years ago Scherer Bros. was the be all to end all for me and made it pretty much a waste of time to shop the borgs. Oh yes pencils were free back then too.
The (sorta) independent yards around here are all fairly small, and when you go in they seem to have the attitude that you're inconveniencing them by trying to buy something. Mostly they don't have what you want/need, and aren't interested in getting it for you. I'm a little surprised they've stayed in business, but I think they manage by specializing in a few niches.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
Around my "neck of the woods" I have FOUR places to go. HD ( can go,but I don't) , Lowes( prices are too high), Menards( price is right, selection is hit and miss), and Carter Lumber Yard( nice selection of CONSTUCTION lumber AND plumbing supplies). If I can't selection the boards myself, I leave. I also call ahead to see who has the best price on the items I need. All are within 25 miles of me, so that part is a "wash". Carter's plywood vs Big Box plywood... about the same stuff." Although I have the right to remain stupid, I try not to abuse that right"
Yeah, it all depends on the local picture.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
I don't know where you are in SE MN. but I can surely empathize. I hated dealing with those kind of yards too. I remember going into a smaller yard near my house in the Twin Cities when I was first starting out. I left with a sour taste in my mouth and swore the full service yards were for a bunch of good ol' boys. Then I found Scherer Bros. in Mpls. and they were more than willing to give me credit and take my money.
My local yard is my first choice. Top quality wood, both common and exotic, good pricing, great service. I go to the cave in the back, the hardware gnome can find me any odd thing I might need, in the quantities I want, in no time flat. And I get to deal with real people who know their asp from a hole in the ground.
Steve
my local yard is closed at 5pm and on weekends. I go to Lowes just because I like blue color instead of the fire orange, and because Home depot on the other side of the busy redlight. I stay away from that redlightone I really like is the Lowes in Biloxi ms, its about 70 miles from the house but I can walk around without people bothering me, no body knows me over there. and yes I only go there when I working in the area,
Edited 9/10/2009 10:22 am by brownbagg
Aloha kaua. Or maybe I should say Aloha Oy vey, why do you want to shop at those places? ;-)
Welcome to Breaktime, the place of no return where sanity is checked at the door, and no claim ticket is issued. Finding your way out of this place becomes more difficult, the farther you tread upon it's meandering paths.
There should be guides but, oddly enough, they've all become lost here themselves.
Well since DIY Network decided everyone in the entire U of A deserves the right to DO-IT-THEMSELVES. I wondered what the more experienced carpenters thought about this whole movement. And with HD and Lowe's at the forefront of this enlightenment of the DIY'er. I feel like my new found career maybe not so easy to be successful at. I have only been and journeyman for 3 years, and needed some grounding to do my part-time side jobs. I have gotten a lot of great feedback. I am glad I decided to join Fine Home Building Breaktime. Much Aloha to all you Carpenters out there. Good-Luck and stay Busy.
If the DIY shows didn't make it look easy, nobody would watch.
I think that the DIY shows are a mixed blessing. While they often make it look so easy that homeowners have a hard time understanding why we have to charge so much, they also inspire people to make improvements that they wouldn't have otherwise considered. There's also another group of people who take on projects themselves because of such shows, but they're probably the minority.
Similarly, the big boxes (Lowes, HD, etc.# are a mixed blessing. They do tend to suppress quality work, but they also make projects possible that might not have been within reach before. For example, just think how easy it is to replace a faucet these days with rubber gaskets, flexible supply lines and tool-free assembly. There are many such products that are better these days whether installed by a professional or a homeowner and I think that big boxes are actually a driving force in these improvements.
In a robust economy #unlike the current one), there's work out there despite the DIY shows and the big boxes. In fact, they probably inspire people to enlist the services of contractors more than they take work away. There will always be people who don't know how or hate to use a thing like a screwdriver or a paintbrush.
I feel like my new found career maybe not so easy to be successful at. I have only been and journeyman for 3 years, and needed some grounding to do my part-time side jobs.
This message board should suit your situation very well then. Lots of talented and experienced tradespeople here to help you through any and all aspects of your work.
As for the choice between HD and Lowes, they're both good one-stop places to get materials for small jobs. Their early/late hours are helpful too. And their return policies are excellent.
I'd advise you to take your plumbing questions to a plumbing supply house. Neither of the big box stores can be trusted to be of any real help with plumbing problems. They do have most of the fittings and other basic stuff but that's about it.
O wau nô me ka mahalo, Peter
We don't get cable, but if the DIY network has caused Americans to RETURN to doing it themselves, then more power to them. For much of a generation (Gen X?) people seemed to take pride in not knowing how to hold a wrench, and we're all the poorer for it.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
>>For much of a generation (Gen X?) people seemed to take pride in not knowing how to hold a wrench, and we're all the poorer for it.<<
Agree completely.
My absolute favorite client is the older (usually 65+) DIY'er who knows when he is in "over his head". They usually live in somewhat older homes and generally have many examples of good craftsmanship in the next room -- might not be overly fancy, but well built / joined.
They know what good looks like, want it, and are willing to pay a reasonable price for it......
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
I think the best sales tool for the professional is the DIY guy screwing up a job the pro makes look so easy.
The inverse can also be true.
I once got called to tile a small foyer. I recalled him asking questions about tiling a while before saying how he thought he might do it himself. I gave him a few pointers and left.
The call came a week later and the materials were all there.
I got to looking at the tiles and noticed there was some white residue on some of the tiles so I questioned him about where he got the tiles
when he fessed up and admitted trying it himself, got in over his head so he and girlfriend cleaned everything up and went on like nothing ever happened.
heh heh He wasn't going to say a word.
word
Similar story:
One of the neighbors where I was working last week came over and asked me if I install crown molding. I told him that I did and he asked if I would be interested in installing it in his dining room. I love these jobs so we walked over to take a look.
On the way, he tells me that he already bought the molding (red flag #1) and painted it (red flag #2). I ask him what lengths he bought and he said that he thinks they're 12' #red flag #3#.
I measure the room. It's just over 12' in both dimensions. I double-check the crown that he bought and painted #fine paint job, anyway# and sure enough they're 12'. He asks me what I would charge if he bought another 12'. I told him that I don't work that way #but more politely#, but that if he was interested, I would buy all new material, paint it and install it and I gave him a price on that.
Since that means he would have wasted his money on the crown he already bought #a mere $50#, he declined. I gave him a few pointers for installing it himself #including the use of crown corner blocks# and wished him luck.
I'm pretty sure he'll screw it up if he tries it himself. Maybe I'll get the job yet.
I rise in defense of the DIYer, the Rodney Dangerfield of Breaktime, as I am one. (Though the DIY network gets old pretty quickly. They seem to show the same limited number of shows over and over again and do the same projects more or less over and over again.)Anyway, I think the whole DIY thing is a boon to contractors, or at least a mixed blessing, because it creates educated consumers. For one thing, it encourages homeowners to consider improvements to their homes in the first place, and many of them develop a pretty good sense of what they can do themselves and what they can't. Maybe even more important is that it educates homeowners about the importance of getting it done right and an appreciation for craftsmanship and attention to detail. My guess is that it makes these DIYers more willing to look for a better grade of contractor than the non-DIYer and more able to understand the true cost of quality work. A personal anecdote: several years ago on Christmas Eve a wind and ice storm toppled a big white pine near my house, collapsing my deck in the process. I got the insurance money, got bids from some local contractors, and hired the lowest bidder. (I didn't have anything more than the insurance money to spend on the job.) Well since then I've gathered more experience with this kind of thing, and every time I look at the deck I see the shortcuts and the things that I wish had been done differently. I didn't know any better, but now I do, thanks to my DIY experience. Someday I'll have to redo the deck, and even though I'll probably do it myself next time, when I do need a contractor to do something on the house in the future, I'll make sure I ask for good craftsmanship and attention to detail, and I'll be willing to pay for it.Norman
I agree on the education aspect of the DIY. No doubt there, but it concerns me to know one day I may be walking to a mind field of questions that I may feel I am more or less an instructor rather that a contractor. The truth may it be I could not sleep well if the customer was not totally satisfied but if I educate (the customer) myself out of a job, suck's for me!
Don't worry about things you can't control.
It's true that sometimes you'll get called to bid a job where the DIY client is just looking for free advice rather than paying a tradesperson what they're worth, but that doesn't happen very often.
DIYers weed themselves out, just by trying something they saw on TV but didn't really grasp. In most cases that experience will give them more respect for the professional and make them better clients.
There's a learning curve for new contractors too. One of the things that can't be taught is how to recognize clients who're being dishonest with the professional. Fortunately for us, it only takes a few experiences, working with that type of person, to develop the intuitive insight needed to spot them during the first conversation.
It's a life lesson really, not just something that tradespeople need to know, so we should be grateful for the opportunity to learn it in this way, with clarity by direct experience in business. It could be, and often is a lesson which is much more painfully learned in personal relationships.
I certainly understand your concern. But I do think that as a DIYer I have a pretty clear idea of what's involved in most projects and so I know what I can or can't do on my own, or what I don't have the time to do on my own. Sometimes I know I don't have the right tool for a job, and rather than spend a lot of money to get it for one project, I'm better off having a pro come in. Sometimes I know I don't have the skills, or the learning curve is steep and the job would be better done by someone with more experience. I doubt the stuff I do myself puts a serious dent in anyone's income. Come to think of it, a lot of my projects are things that most homeowners would buy mass-produced anyway, but that I want done better than that.I would ask a contractor friend for advice, but I would never lead a guy on by making him believe I'm interested in hiring him when in fact all I want to do is pick his brain. That's just wrong and a dishonest way to treat people. I do hope it's rare.Norman
I use Lowes and they do know my name there. Alot of people here dont like the bigboxes, but I have to admit they're convienient when you need a little bit of everything.
I will say though that they do not always have the best price. I just did my garage roof and they were about $10/sq high on the price.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.